Coach James Poidog
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Posts posted by Coach James Poidog
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10 hours ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:
I think this is a significant thing. And I completely agree. But, at least for me, things are "working" against fighters who just are not very high level, fighters that lack deep-seeded spatial awareness. There are lots of things that work against more limited fighters. But the reason people get super excited about it isn't because "hey, this works!", it's because someone made a highlight clip and then that clip "works" in the social media stream.
Exactly this.
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Yeah, I know a little of his situation and can see how hed get there. I hope at some point it will work out but Im realistic about it.
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3 minutes ago, Oliver said:
Exact. My first 3 years, about 7 of us fighting from the gym. We go saturday morning for sparring day, only 1 time per week. Not bloody kidding....one time, half way through training I look around and realise 6 out the 7 of us are sitting on the bench holding ice packs, and one dude got knocked the f**k out and couldn't remember how he got to the gym that day.
That's kinda when I knew.
Yup. Every week, multiple times even, for years. And for what? Looking back, Im positive it didnt help me or 90% of the people who did it. The ten percent it did help wouldve grown no matter what lol. Now, for me as a coach, is about efficiency. What will make the 90% grow? Hard sparring frequency drops. That being said, the definition of hard and light changes too. Light becomes a little rougher with certain people, hard becomes more about escalation and intent than actual contact. Understanding that its not competition but a form of growth.
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3 minutes ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:
I checked out another compilation of the same kids, some of it really looked like excellent fake fighting. Punches pulled, like little whacks, but just for sound. Some might be hard (leg kicks, hey, there's no damage in that). This seems like Chinese performance, not far from the stuff we saw with Phetjee Jaa and her brother that freaked out the internet. But as Sylvie said, you don't know for sure unless you are there.
Totally. And Sylvie and me might see this in a very different way because we see VERY competent young fighters all the time. We see 10 year olds that know how to handle themselves better than 30 year olds, so that can color our sense of safety too. But, to me, these kids look like they are swimming in water they have been been in for many years.
Yeah supposedly these littles come from the same kung fu kwoon in hong kong. They obviously have been doing this a while and are good at it. So for me part of the issue is hard to explain and could be the wushu quality or whatever. Part of it is people seeing this, not recognizing that these people mightve done things to take away the dangers inherent, and then think its ok to do this. Maybe my itchyness comes from that aspect. Dunno. I had to focus on the things Id do different to make it "ok" to me, but theres a lot there below the surface that bugs me and I cant put my finger on it yet.
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1 hour ago, AndyMaBobs said:
When it comes to hard sparring, I think it's completely appropriate to bash people hard in the body and legs if they signed up for it. But I don't think hard contact to the head is ever really appropriate. A fighter should learn to defend his head through strong drilling and light sparring - never through heavy sparring.
I think people read the words hard sparring and they think of something like the Groenhart brothers going to war:
When it should be more like this:
And this too. Hard to the body and legs with gear on and you can recover from it, hard to the head (even with gear on) and more and more research is showing that you have a limit on what can be taken. And the video with the brothers is exactly what hard sparring was for me. Imagine that all the time, up to 4 days a week, and you might sympathize with my perspective lol. And btw, there are some really good gyms in the West that focuses away from hard sparring (its still hard but the perspective is different). They have a perspective where their light isnt as light as people expect, but the control is there and the respect is there. There isnt any escalation and pace, power, etc is agreed on ahead of time. Some guys will go with what can easily be viewed as hard but the intent is just to push. The biggest reason they do this is injury prevention and longevity in the sport.
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1 hour ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:
Ha, this is the video that got Sylvie writing in the first place. I think JWP and Sylvie are 100% on opposite ends on this. Sylvie looks at this and she's like: These kids aren't even making contact. JWP is like "Holy Fuck!" I think JWP has been outside of Thailand for too long, hahahaha.
I think he sees it the way I do. Its not play, the boy got kicked hard enough in the leg twice to quit. It just seems reckless. Same speed power etc with gear on in a gym and we'd likely not be bothered. Maybe hes triggered because hes a parent and gym owner, so he sees liability? Dunno. Im triggered because its kids and it feels reckless and without purpose. Whether its fake/choreographed or real, it bugs me in ways that are hard to explain.
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5 hours ago, Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu said:
So here's my point: there is a purpose to hard sparring. There is purpose to "technical" sparring. There is an art to both, and I think both are required for the development of a fighter. But what's "light" about Thai sparring is not the power of strikes; it honestly is in the "asshole factor" of emotional energy put into the sparring itself. It's a lack of control that makes hard sparring dangerous or not worthwhile, not the power itself. Stress is an important training tool. Disappointment is a training tool. Gassing out is an important training tool. To only ever advocate for some kind of pantomime sparring robs fighters of those tools.
This. This is what matters to me. Intent. To explain a little about my background so people understand why this is important to me: I grew up just doing hard sparring, gym war type stuff. Intent is real and many that came up this way saw a lot of damage being done for no real reason other than "can you take it". There wasnt a lot recovery research being taught either. It was a walk it off mentality. Because of that I ended up a chronically in pain 38 year old. Its taken me years to get to the point where the pain is gone and my body is normal, years of recovery and therapy. Im in no way against hard sparring for the right people whether they are hobbyists that want to be tested or fighters prepping, Im just against the mindless hard sparring because tough guy shit. It serves no purpose. I mean, Ive seen really bad injuries in technical sparring, it happens. But sparring like everything else needs to be used as a tool, applied because theres a goal. If the goal is to push someone for competition or because they want it, then the intent is pure. Im all for that.
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32 minutes ago, Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu said:
All that said, I train in a gym that has seen and currently has a few sets of brothers. They are not the same size as each other (not nearly as close as these two appear) and occasionally take it upon themselves to clinch or spar. Our trainer doesn't match them up - that often leads to "Jai Rohn" emotional states because... well, siblings. But when they choose to do it on their own it's very playful, even when rough at times. I'm a fan of it. The other day Alex and Bank, who are not real siblings but have grown up in the gym together for the past 5+ years (ages 13-18, so significant time at that phase) were sparring - directed to do so by our trainer because they have fights at the same time - and it got HEATED. They never lost control, but I haven't seen them look that much like brothers in years, just by the rivalry.
See, this stuff with protective gear and in a controlled environment with experienced trainers all over it Im a fan of and think to a degree is necessary. But in a hotel room, no gear, with clear intent to harm? Gets me itchy. And supposedly these two go to the same kung fu school. They have a place to do this probably safer...so why here? Feels off.
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1 minute ago, threeoaks said:
That makes sense. Must be annoying!
Lol more humorous, but frustrating if they cant buckle down on the fundamentals. Basics win fights as a great coach once told me. Id want a lot of time put into those before Id explore the more fancy tricks that make highlight videos.
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There are real things about age one has to take into consideration BUT if you do that then there is no reason not to compete. I train way differently than I did when I was 20 (48 now) because of injuries etc but its made it so I could compete now if I wanted to. Its just being realistic about who you are now vs how you were then. Too many remember the past but dont consider the now. Thankfully, starting later kind of makes that a moot point. Its all new. If you were my student, Id say do it.
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1 hour ago, threeoaks said:
I saw the Raymond Daniels KO. I’m not a fan of how people mock spinning things (Kevin your more nuanced take of when to use them, offensive v defensive or at least singularly makes sense). But within other traditional martial arts it’s a well developed art form. The Daniels KO was hilarious cause he did two full rotations (and he’s a huge dude), landed, saw the opening & just punched his opponent’s lights out. Evidently he stuffed himself and had no room to throw the leg. Apart from the easy mockery of all the flowery effort, you have to accept that his opponent was dumb-founded & took a hard one to the jaw as a result lol. Diversion is not meaningless. As for Gaston Bolanos, I’ve seen him fight several times and his elbows can seem calculated for the television audience (his movie star looks don’t hurt), but I believe he is an earnest & serious fighter, perhaps not from the Thai perspective but he’s a lifelong martial artist, starting with his boyhood in Peru.
I think both Daniels and Gaston (love him) are perfect examples of people that train it to make it integral to their arsenal who also have their fundamentals down solidly. In those cases Im a fan. I have a guy who has a nasty spinning hook kick hes used successfully in competition. He trains it diligently. Raymond is another guy that has made it part of his tried and true from years of training. I cant find any fault with that. What Im not a fan of, and the coach who made this meme is also trying to say, is focusing on techniques that for most are low percentage working techniques over the tried and true fundamentals of fighting. Ive encountered some people that couldnt throw a round kick with out losing balance want to just learn a spinning elbow. If theyre a hobbyist and we're doing a private, Ill just sigh and take em through it, but for my students that compete its a bugger frustration. Nothing wrong with spinning stuff as long as you have everything else coming along nicely.
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On 5/28/2019 at 11:34 PM, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:
What is yours James?! I would love to know the things you favor as a coach and ex-fighter.
I have a few but Id say my favorite as a go to for both exploratory probing and straight damage is the leg kick. Its a lot more versatile than people think. Timed wrong and you can be made to really pay for it, but if done right it opens up so much, especially to the body and head. And it hurts in a different way than other strikes. Youll know quickly if they have a weakness in their legs and/or balance. With that said there are different techniques for the low kick too. My current favorite is in using it to create engagement without exposing yourself. (I mightve said this already somewhere else) Bazooka Joe Vallentini teaches a really slick way to use the momentum of the kick thrown (not hard, just testing) to pull the whole body slightly back. You can use it to cause the opponent to come forward slightly into range for hooks and even teeps. It creates just that amount of space that the opponent has to step to engage. That step is your opportunity.
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2 hours ago, SPACEDOODLE said:
The teeps mixed in with muay thai kicks are really my bread and butter. I love linking together teeps to the xiphoid with kicks to the ribs and quads.
Yeah these in conjunction are great. I teach these two in combo a lot. I personally like to far leg teep to an inside low kick with my lead leg. The lead teep sets it up nicely without the usual counter.
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So Im curious as to people's responses to this video here. I know my opinions based on me being a coach of kids as well as adults, but Id like to hear others as well. In you answer please also include your experience level for curiosity sake. Also, no judgement on people's opinions please.
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10 hours ago, Ann710 said:
Talking to the trainer is not an option for her and she has some trust issues that the trainer wouldn't care enough.
This part bothers me. Can I ask why? Did something happen? The reason it bothers me is the bond between a fighter and coach is serious, especially going into a fight. It shouldnt be on shaky ground. People have fought and won with their relationship with their coach on shaky terms, but its not ideal, ya?
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3 hours ago, Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu said:
Also, fights don't mean anything more than what happens during the minutes they are taking place. They do not determine ability, or worth. They determine if you like fighting or not.
I think this is an important thing to realise both before and after the fight. A lot of fighters I know feel fear before the fight not so much about being hurt but not performing in front of friends and family as well as they should. Thats a lot of pressure to take with you in there. Why did she start to compete, what was the motivation? That is the part that needs to still have importance, but not as pressure, as motivation. Fear cant be ignored but it can be used. Losses suck, no way around it, but they dont define and they also can be used (in fact often times they can be of more use than wins). The idea for me as a coach is to reduce pressure before a fight, to get them to harness what fears they have. Everything is a matter of perspective, its how you choose to see it.
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7 hours ago, Jeremy Stewart said:
Evolution is what it's about, in my opinion. There's so much freedom in muay thai. To me, you can express yourself better in muay thai language than other martial art languages. You can take what you're given and truly make it your own. Your own dialect of a particular language so to speak. It's so adaptable and enjoyable and flows so freely between things.
Totally agree
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5 hours ago, AndyMaBobs said:
So a little bit of background - most UK in the Muay Thai is informed by the few influential coaches who trained out in Thailand and brought Muay Thai back with them (usually after fighting them in kickboxing) and Master Sken, who like Master Toddy was a TKD guy who sort of knew muay thai a little bit then packaged it as Thaikwondo and begun to teach it in the UK some 40 years ago.
I was taught by Thoethai Srikrotriam - a Thai stadium fighter from the 70s/80s and he taught me via watching me train and occasionally correcting things he didn't like until I got to where I am today. The way we are usually shown to kick by the English coaches (several of whom have been taught by my teacher) is very similar to how it's taught in this video. To my eyes that looks pretty much the same as the Golden Kick, but not quite as slick as the sort you'd see from Karuhat, Sagat etc.
Wondered if anyone else would like to have a look and see how it measures up to what they understand of the golden age kick!
Great video explanation on what I was taught as well. My coach at the time used a wall to help keep the leg from swinging out in an arc. Ive used walls, cage walls, etc to help teach it.
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5 hours ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:
As a sidenote, the lopsided mis-match of Kickboxing vs Muay Thai didn't just show itself in Japan in the 1970s or Holland in the 1990s. You can find it in America as well, a different branch of Kickboxing (Karate). I believe this fight was in California in 1987 (?) and featured Yodkhunpon Sittraipum "The Elbow Hunter of 100 Stitches". Not only did probably the greatest elbow fighter Thailand has ever known fight without his preferred weapon, with which the fight would have ended very quickly, he told us he was at a 20 lb disadvantage:
Yeah it definitely happened a lot here (my coach had to fight kb even though the promotion called it muay Thai because of the laws of the time). So much so that there are/were a ton of coaches that taught kb and called it muay Thai because they honestly thought thats what they were teaching. I had a few coaches that were really kickboxers and taught that while calling it muay Thai. It wasnt until I had a coach who was truly trained in muay Thai that I saw the difference.
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Kind of a side subject but I think relevant is the connection you mentioned in another post about the wealthy and specifically karate. That had to have had an influence in the spread of kickboxing after its development. If anyone can go so far as to develop a while new style to avoid losing to another style it would be people with money and influence. Just thinking out loud.
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In fact there was a counter point to the wealthy/Gracies and the people who couldnt afford to train with them that still found ways to learn, the vale tudo crowd and the lutas. Better people than me can really explain it, but essentially it created a "gang" like atmosphere with the wealthy being one faction and the poor being another championed by these two groups. Towards the forum topic though, it was the Gracies ability to move to another country and blow up their family's name and sport that led to where we are no with the art.
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Bjj is another prime example with mostly the wealthy being taught by the Gracies in Brazil. Its part of why and how it ended up here in the states, specifically Torrance, CA.
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7 hours ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:
You see this in Muay Boran styles like Muay Chaiya, at least as it is taught in Bangkok by Kru Lek. You get a real sense of "defense first", but defense itself has an offensive structure, or the difference between offense and defense is really blurred. This always struck me as the sign of a style's proximity to actual warfare. The very first rule of warfare fighting would be "Do not get killed", and then "Do not become disabled". When you see styles that are founded on rock solid defense (and in my book "evasion" is not rock solid because you can evade, evade, evade, and once you fail, you are dead - or, when a second attacker arrived) it just feels like it's the warfare logic. Those Chaiya, Lertrit styles, where defense becomes wounding, and you are always only a move or two from finishing the fight. That feels very realistic to battlefield demands.
Excellent point. The thing I notice about fighters that have really great defense but stay with it too long is either it eventually fails and they get tagged or the fight drags on because the person is too focused on defense and has no offense to speak of. That would be catastrophic in a battlefield or street situation where new opponents and weapons come in to play. So many traditional styles I think suffered from a lack of defense when they got challenged by sport fighting, and I think it was because of this. They are so focused on offense as defense and doing it immediately that they had no sense of defensive timing, things that give you time to size up your opponent and find the holes in their game, something youd never want to do in the battlefield or street. One self defense instructor I love teaches a style that works in all situations amd youll see a cross over to clinching too: Tony Blauer and his spear system (basically a defense that doubles as an entry to a clinch style close fighting system that doesnt give the opponent much time to do anything). If ypu watch some of his stuff youll see cross over mainly because he uses what works from other styles and combines them in a way he feels works best together. It becomes an unweaving and reweaving of styles which I believe is where evolution happens.
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8 hours ago, Jeremy Stewart said:
I believe one thing we lose sight of is, all martial arts were borne of the need for either war or self defense, so it kind of makes sense that similarities in concepts and physical applications would be apparent across the spectrum of styles.
100 percent this. Ive seen a lot of cross over in the different styles Ive trained in. Just training in greco roman wrestling you see some cross over to Thai clinching. I think the shared origins, the whys of an art starting, makes it so we will definitely have so.e cross over some where. I also think this is where innovation to you style can come from. Bjj is a relatively new art in comparison, but its evolution in the short time its been around is incredible and its all because no one limits themselves in how they create with it. I see a lot of that ability to evolve quickly available for muay Thai, especially clinch fighting. Just in the different ways of fighting muay Thai you see how imaginations evolved.
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What is Your Favorite Technique?
in Muay Thai Technique, Training and Fighting Questions
Posted
I really like how you translate combat with music. Thats a unique way of looking at it and I think, especially how tied music is to muay Thai, a good way to view it.