Most Authentic Muay Thai Gyms

[rickyrico]

I'm an intermediate Muay Thai fighter seeking an authentic training experience in Thailand. I understand that many gyms might not typically accept foreigners for a more traditional training environment, but authenticity is a top priority for me. I speak some Thai and am genuinely committed to immersing myself in a real Muay Thai experience. Ideally, I’d like a gym where I can do private sessions 4-5 times a week to refine my technique, along with group classes that offer solid clinch work and sparring. I’m planning a six-week stay later this year (could be more) and would be grateful for any recommendations of gyms that might align with these goals. Location does not matter. Some examples I've been looking at are like Keatkhamtorn and Dejrat gym. Something like that, I want a good main trainer who will be able to teach me good in private sessions. 

[Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu]

On 11/10/2024 at 10:10 PM, rickyrico said:

I’d like a gym where I can do private sessions 4-5 times a week to refine my technique

I understand your pursuit of authenticity, but this would not happen in an "authentic" kaimuay gym. Private lessons are kind of a Western thing.

Probably the best option would be Nungubon's gym in Isaan, or Kem's Gym below Khorat, which both have kaimuay-type characteristics, but you could still take lots of privates (which are usually a good thing to do).

[Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu]

On 11/10/2024 at 10:10 PM, rickyrico said:

I'm an intermediate Muay Thai fighter seeking an authentic training experience in Thailand. I understand that many gyms might not typically accept foreigners for a more traditional training environment, but authenticity is a top priority for me. I speak some Thai and am genuinely committed to immersing myself in a real Muay Thai experience. Ideally, I’d like a gym where I can do private sessions 4-5 times a week to refine my technique, along with group classes that offer solid clinch work and sparring. I’m planning a six-week stay later this year (could be more) and would be grateful for any recommendations of gyms that might align with these goals. Location does not matter. Some examples I've been looking at are like Keatkhamtorn and Dejrat gym. Something like that, I want a good main trainer who will be able to teach me good in private sessions. 

I have a little more time, let me offer a more complete response. Some of the difficulty in pursuing "authenticity" in Thai gyms is that non-Thai can tend to have pretty romantic visions of what an authentic gym is like. Or, at the very least incomplete pictures. And, there are versions of imagined authenticity. A great deal of Thailand's Muay Thai of the past came out of the kaimuay (camp) teaching or development method, but there were very different kinds of kaimuay, in some way depending on how close you are to Bangkok's National Stadia, or large city centers where there were scenes of weight class fighting, and thus more money put into the sport. In the outer provinces kaimuay could be just a collection of local boys, in Bangkok a gym that had bought up the contracts of successful provincial fighters, combined with other training/trainer interests. But in these settings there was very little one-on-one instruction, as far as we can tell. Instead, fighters were basically workers, laborers, much as ranch-hands were laborers in the Cattle Ranching of the American West. Fighters were very low status, socially, pad men also usually low status, and the development of fighters was a process, come from mixing all the fighters together, in the work of the kaimuay. There's really no Master & Student dynamic going on, as for instance in Asian Martial Arts, or even like coach-centric Western Boxing traditions. It was largely the churn. Fighters would fall out, or they would rise. There were likely exceptions and unique dynamics in gyms, but this was the "authentic" profile of what was happening. So, if you wanted to be part of a kaimuay, as it was, you would just be in the churn. You wouldn't be getting special instruction. You'd be learning by imitation and repetition, and through lots of sparring and clinch. You would have no authority as a customer (in this fantasy), you wouldn't be allowed to leave the camp and go to another gym if things weren't working out (this problem STILL happens for Westerners in Thailand, believe it or not, because Muay Thai gym are very political). You'd be in a state more or less like indentured work.

That kaimuay, as it was, largely doesn't exist anymore. Which is to say Thai camps have vestigial aspects of the kaimuay, and some still train with a focus on the churn (which is the true way), but this is very far from going to a camp and taking private lessons, as a paying customer. Now lots of Muay Thai gyms offer privates, and also have adapted training to Western expectations, involving more correction and attention, and some of those still try to maintain something of the kaimuay ethic. But, we are already outside of "authentic" as it historically was.

So when Westerners really long for the authentic experience, they are often caught between kinds of gyms, gyms that maintain SOME dimensions of authenticity (just some of that: train in a kaimuay way, focus on Thai techniques and principles, produce Thai stadium fighters themselves, carry a culture of traditional respect and power), but none of them will have all of that (at least as I've seen). Worse, many (even with some authentic qualities, will have started training in more Western ways, holding for combos, focused on Entertainment Muay Thai (which is basically Muay Thai made for tourists and tourism). So its very hard to pick out WHICH authentic elements you are going to get. You could go to a "traditional style" gym known for Muay Khao and just end up clinching endlessly with Westerners who also came there because its known for clinch training. You could go where a true legend of the sport like Arjan Surat still works fighters for the stadia, but there may be nobody your size to train against and with. You could go up to a REAL provincial kaimuay like Santi Gym in Ubon, and just train in the churn of fighters reaching for the stadia, but they probably wouldn't be giving privates (?), and you might find the work boring or isolating. You could go to a "technique" gym like Sitjaopho, where you'll (probably) be pressed together with lots of other Westerners very interested in technique, but in a hybrid way that has approximated the kaimuay churn, while offering lots of correction and teaching, but you won't likely be training with Thai fighters. You could go to Sit Thailand in Chiang Mai, which seems to have a small kaimuay structure, organized around developing his son and a few other good Thais, and take privates from him (a very good teacher), but are there people to train with (this changes a lot in gyms)? Or, you could go the Samart's gym, and be trained by legends like Kongtoranee or Karuhat, and be near (mixed in? I don't know) the Thai kaimuay like processes of their handful of stadium fighters, in a kind of hybrid space? These are just very broad pictures (every gym changes, we don't really spend time in gyms much). Every gym is going to be missing something, probably a lot of things.

This is the fundamental problem for Westerners. Muay Thai has more and more become FOR the Westerner. In fact they've now invented a new version of Muay Thai which is FOR the Westerner, and its becoming dominant. But, if Muay Thai wasn't turning its face to the Westerner there would be little room for the Westerner in traditional spaces...because traditional spaces are not only hierarchical (not commercial for customers), they were also businesses in the way that Cattle Ranches were businesses. You wouldn't come from another country and go to a ranch in 1950 in Texas to "learn how to be a cowboy".

Part of the problem is that Muay Thai itself, in its authentic strain, is dying, so you can only capture pieces of it, fragments, at best chunks. I'm not an expert in this, only someone with my own experience, but this perspective comes from documenting the Golden Age of the sport, getting to know the great teachers of the art and sport as they are now, but also continually hunting for the kaimuay qualities of "authenticity" for Sylvie herself, as she trains and fights. It's very difficult to find.

 

[Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu]

Thoughts about authenticity:

Just to offer something, gyms change all the time, and factors of "authenticity" can also change. And who you are and what you need/desire is probably more important than even the qualities of the gym at times.

Dejrat Gym, Bangkok - Arjan Surat is an absolute legend, nobody like him in the entire sport. Gym in his garage (not uncommon in the day), lighter weight stadium fighters even at the champion level come through his gym still. A very tough old school trainer. Pads will shape you. May not be a full gym.

 

 

Santi Ubon Gym, Ubon - a real provincial kaimuay, full of local kids and teens, some ranked BKK stadium fighters, you'll get the legit culture of provincial Muay Thai here.

there's a MTL on this gym:

#149 Provincial Kaimuay Knowledge | Santi Ubon Muay Thai (85 min) watch it here

Everyone wants to know what "authentic" Muay Thai training is like in Thailand. We visit and document the kaimuay training style of the Santi gym in Ubon (Isaan), the traditional, local community style of training that is core to Thailand's historical style of fighting. Learn the energy of padwork, sparring and clinch, how fighters are shaped from the ground up. Training like there is nowhere else in the world.

 

Sitjaopho Gym, Hua Hin - a very interesting hybrid gym completely organized around Westerners who love technique. Loads of teaching, loads of training, Kru F a great communicator and as nice as you'll find in Thailand. They have a system of teaching that is connected to kaimuay principles in a very devoted way...but its pretty much for Westerners. Some long term Westerners there are also very helpful and knowledgeable, and in fact may be really key to how the whole gym stays in that sweetspot, and gyms can be very affected by who is training. You train here you will learn.

 

 

Nungubon Gym, Ubon - great legend of the Golden Age, his son a strong stadium fighter now, which really is good to have in a gym. Out of the way so the Westerners who come to this gym have trekked to get there. The gym has real sincerity, Nungubon is wonderful and Old School. Did not see training, but it seemed like maybe not a full gym. That can be good and can be bad, depends on your needs.

 

 

Samart's Gym, Bangkok - Gyms in the 2010s started informally breaking themselves into two kinds of gyms, which operated side-by-side. There was "Thai gym" (which trains Thais for the stadia in a traditional way), and the Western gym (which trains Westerners, in parallel to the Thais). Often Westerners can't even tell that there are two different gyms operating side-by-side (that's a little how it felt). At Samart's you get to be trained by legends like Kongtoranee and Karuhat, and there are top Thai low-weight stadium champion level fighters like Chalamchon (photo shoot here) developing. The experience is unique because of just how many Golden Age legends are around, including Samart of course, but also Somrak, Dieselnoi will come through, and many others. So it has a mix of authenticities, some of them absolutely unique.

 

 

Samingnoom Gym Buriram - a great legend of the Golden Age, adept in both boxing and Muay Thai, history of teaching abroad in places like New Zealand and Finland, built his own ring beside his small house which he also built by hand. These little gyms have the heartbeat of traditional Muay Thai. He trains local kids and adventuresome foreigners. Very barebones authentic Muay Thai. 

 

Kem Muay Thai Gym, Khao Yai -  Kem a great fighter of the 2000s runs a trad camp in maybe the most beautiful location in Thailand, high up in the Khao Yai mountains, overlooking a valley. The training is kaimuay style, mixed in with Western style drilling that Kem feels builds proper principles. Kem is very, very sound in terms of the deeper principles of Muay Thai, not only its beautiful strikes, but its balance and footwork. Most of the gym will be Westerners, but they've come a long way so they are committed. His wife Mo is wonderful, and speaks English, so even though it feels very Thai, she can help out with any issues. Everyone eats together, traditional style, high up above the camp. One of the great privates in Thailand.