Jump to content

Stepping on kicks: 45-degrees, or straight ahead (per Kontoranee Payakaroon session)?

NotARobot
 Share

Recommended Posts

NotARobot Nong

NotARobot

Posted
Posted

First off, I want to say a big thank you to Sylvie for the dedication and detail you put into all your content and for sharing such a wealth of Muay Thai information with the world.

Having watched the great session with Kontoranee Payakaroon, I had a question or a request for clarification. My first Muay Thai trainer, Ryan Roy (pro MT fighter, previously head trainer for Fairtex in the Bay Area back in the day, and now owner of T2 Muay Thai in Mountain View, CA for any folks out there looking to learn) taught us to always step out at a 45-degree angle on our kicks to avoid getting caught by a punch to the face mid-kick. In your session with Kongtoranee Payakaroon, he taught you to step straight towards your opponent's front foot on your kick. I know there is never one 'right' style, but did the subject of head protection during the kick come up much in your session? At one point during the session, he gave you a tip about using your defensive hand more towards the center of the face rather than the 'usual' by-the-ear position. I'm curious to know his approach, as I have seen a lot of kicks in pro MT fights where the fighter does not seem to step on that 45-degree angle, but again this technique has been drilled into my brain from training (even though I'm terrible at actually doing it!). I also remember watching an MMA fight (a different world than MT, but still...) where one fighter stepped straight towards his opponent on his kick and ended up getting knocked out with either a punch or elbow to the head. I continue to be curious on this topic, and to understand any subtlety or conditions of the varous approaches you have learned to the step. (I also enjoyed Arjun Surat's 'always defend on kicks' approach in your session video with him.) Thanks once again for your continual sharing of knowledge! - Dave

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu Fellow Traveler

Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu

Posted
Posted

The 45 degree step is preferred by most trainers and gyms that I've experienced. When krus have you step straight forward, it's usually because they kick "through" the opponent more, but then your guard has to stay up pretty solid as a defense as you come in. Like the Arjan Surat arm, or "Pinsinchai Arm" as Kevin and I call it, to defend punches. This was never explicitly stated by Kongtoranee to me, but other krus who have taught to step right on or near an opponent's foot, it also allows your kick or knee to "track" them if they try to pivot off or move to the side. 

Rambaa, Karuhat, Yodkhunpon and Sagat all teach that elbow toward the center as a defense. It f***ing hurts if you punch an elbow. Can break someone's hand quite easily.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Most Recent Topics

  • Latest Comments

    • Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu
      Why I'm Obsessed With Golden Age Muay Thai and Its Fighters

      By Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu · Posted

      Many are curious or questioning why I’ve become so focused on fighters of the Golden Age, if it might be some form of nostalgia, or a romance of exoticism for what is not now. Truthfully, it is just that of the draw of a mystery, the abiding sense of: How did they do that?, something that built up in me over many years, a mystery increasing over the now hundreds of hours I’ve spent in the presence of Golden Age fighters - both major and minor. Originally it came from just standing in the ring with them, often filming close at hand, and getting that practically synaptic, embodied sense that this is just so different, the feeling you can only get first hand - especially in comparison. You can see it on video, and it is apparent, but when you feel it its just on another order, an order of true mystery. When something moves through the space in a new or alter way it reverberates in you. How is it that these men, really men from a generation or two, move like this. It’s acute in someone like Karuhat, or Wangchannoi, or Hippy, but it is also present in much lessor names you will never know. It’s in all of them, as if its in the water of their Time. I’ve interviewed and broken down all the possible sources of this. It seems pretty clear that it did not come to them out of some form of instruction. It was not dictated or explicitly shown, explained (so when coaches today do these today they are not touching on that vein). It does not seem sufficient to think that it came from just a very wide talent pool, the sheer number of young fighters that were dispersed throughout the country in the 1980s, as if sheer natural selection pulled those movements and skills out. It did not come from sheerly training hard - some notable greats did not train particularly hard, at least by reputation. It’s not coached, its not trained, its not numerical. A true mystery. Fighters would come from the provinces with a fairly substantial number of fights, but at a skill level which they would say isn’t very strong, and within only a few years be creating symphonies in the ring. Karuhat was 16 when he fought his first fight (with zero training) and by 19 was one of the best fighters who ever lived. Sirimongkol accidentally killed an opponent in the provinces (I would guess a medical issue for the opponent, a common strike) and was pulled down to Bangkok because of this sudden "killer" reputation, but he’d tell you that he was completely unskilled and of little experience. Within a few years he was among the very best of his generation. We asked him: Who trained you, who taught you?, expecting some insight into a lineage of knowledge and he told us “Nobody. I learned from watching others.” This runs so hard against the primary Western assumptions of how Knowledge is kept, recorded and passed, but it is a story we heard over and over. Somehow these men, both famous and not, developed keen, beautiful (very precise) movement and acute combat potency without direct transmission or even significant instructional training. The answer could be located nowhere…in no particular place or function. Sherlock Holmes said of a mystery: Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.. All these things that we anticipate make great fighters, these really seem to be the impossible here. They were not the keys, it seems. Instead it appears that it was in the very weave of the culture, and the subcultures of Muay Thai, within the structures of the kaimuay experiences, in the richly embedded knowledges of everyone in the game, in the states of relaxation of the aesthetics of muay itself, in the practices of play, in the weft of festival fighting, the warp of equipmentless training, in endurance, in the quixotic powers of gambling, the Mother’s Milk of Muay Thai itself, which is a very odd but beautiful thing to conclude. It does pose something of a nostalgia, because many of these cultural and circumstantial elements have changed - some radically altered by a certain modernity, some shifted subtly - so there is a dimension of feeling that we want not to lose all of it, that we might still pull some substantial threads forward into our own future, some of that cultural DNA that made some of the greatest fighters ever what they were. It's not a hope to return to those past states, but a respect for what they (mysteriously) created. As we approximate techniques, copy movements, mechanize styles, coach harder and harder, these are all the things that make up a net through which everything slips out. Instead, this mystery, the how did they become so great, so proficient, so perceptive, so smooth, so electric, so knowing, stands before us, something of a challenge to our own age and time.
    • The Bongo
      Muay Thai career or college

      By The Bongo · Posted

      I guess you're in the UK?  If so, do college.  At your age it's free.  As for after college, do what youth allows.  Have a go at fighting.   You pay for uni whatever age you are.  Nothing wrong in doing something in uni in your mid -20's+.  I did a second degree in my 30's.  I would not have been held back by a career as a fighter earlier on.  As you get older, you begin to regret the things that you didn't do, far more than the things that you did.     Good luck in your fight career!
    • Wewarm
      Muay Thai career or college

      By Wewarm · Posted

      I am soon to be 17 and I’ve been training Muay Thai for nearly 3 years now. I also happen to be doing quite well in school and plan to go to uni. However, that all changed when I went to Thailand last summer to train for a few weeks and fight. One of the trainers, with whom I have developed a close connection, told me not to go back home and stay in Thailand in order build a career. “You stay, become superstar” to quote him, as he pointed at the portraits of their best fighters hung on the gym’s wall. After realizing he wasn’t joking, I told him I couldn’t stay and had to finish my last year of high school (which is what I am currently doing) but promised him I’d come back the following year once I was done with school. Ever since, both these words and my love for Muay Thai resonate in me, and I can’t get the idea of becoming a professional fighter out of my head. On one hand, I’m afraid I’m being lied to, since me committing to being a fighter obviously means he gets more pay to be my coach. But on the other hand, it is quite a reputable and trustworthy gym, and this trainer in particular is an incredible coach and pad holders since he is currently training multiple rws fighters including one who currently holds an rws belt. And for a little more context, I don’t think this invitation to become a pro came out of nowhere, because during those few weeks I trained extremely hard and stayed consistent, which I guess is what impressed him and motivated him to say those words. Additionally, I was already thinking about the possibility of going pro before the trip because of my love for Muay Thai and because a female boxing champion who has close ties to my local gym told me I had potential and a fighter’s mindset. Therefore, I have to pick between two great opportunities, one being college and a stable future, and the other being a Muay Thai career supported by a great gym and coach. So far, I plan to do a gap year to give myself more time to make a decision and to begin my training in order to give myself an idea of how hard life as a pro is. This is a big decision which I definitely need help with, so some advice would be greatly appreciated.

  • The Latest From Open Topics Forum

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      1.4k
    • Total Posts
      11.6k

Footer title

This content can be configured within your theme settings in your ACP. You can add any HTML including images, paragraphs and lists.

Footer title

This is an example of a list.

Footer title

This content can be configured within your theme settings in your ACP. You can add any HTML including images, paragraphs and lists.

Footer title

This content can be configured within your theme settings in your ACP. You can add any HTML including images, paragraphs and lists.

×
×
  • Create New...