The Conor McGregor Shoulder Strike for Muay Thai

[Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu]

Cool to look at. Two useless arms. Conor has a basic Thai clinch position. Arm loop + inside frame. Cerrone exerts no control or pressure over either arm, especially on the shoulder strike side. This lazy over position on the frame drives me crazy. Happens all the time. What's beautiful about this is how Conor is giving ground, which really sets it all up. Backwards movement in clinch is key to so many dominant movements.

watch the slow motion of the strikes here:

https://web.facebook.com/watch/?v=2852823818097683

This is a pretty fascinating strike in that it's set up by a general grinding forward, and the lack of pressure or control, but also because it develops from a very common position in Muay Thai, so much so it would be pretty easy to get lazy about it. No Thai would just grind forward like that in the clinch, which is a pretty big factor here, but they very well might not dig their head in deep enough, like Cerrone, to control the shoulder and collar bone, or not snake in hard enough from the top arm position. Because Thais clinch train in very lengthy sessions habits and position assumptions do develop - and I find these unconscious shapes pretty interesting. Though shoulder strikes are perfectly legal in Thailand's Muay Thai, they really are almost never seen, likely due to evolving aesthetics, and maybe a sense of sportsmanship. In short, this is a kind of a "hole" in the form of Thai clinch, I suspect. Proper technique probably closes the hole pretty firmly, but proper,. or optimized technique is not always happening, or even trained. From this position Cerrone, in Muay Thai, would be most concerned with the elbow. The shoulder isn't even thought about. It's a blindspot. Blindspots happen in fighting styles and disciplines, shaped by rulesets, cultural aesthetics, and training practices. The shoulder is actually a hidden appendage and leverage point in lots of high-level Thai clinch technique, but it's not thought of as a direct weapon. I imagine that it would likely be seen as "base", perhaps in the way that Yodkhupon's amazing high volume elbow fighting style was looked down upon, despite winning at the highest level (simultaneous stadium belts in the Golden Age).

I personally find this strike really interesting because the McGregor position is a dominant one that Sylvie works herself toward and secures in lots of fights. She loops that right arm hard, and is always exploring developments from there. This is a Dieselnoi position. Most often it's considered better to control the neck with the left arm, and work towards knees and turns, but this frame up exposing the open side, pinning it open is definitely an active position.

So much of this strike is dependent on Cerrone grinding forward, allowing McGregor to bounce back and load. But it does seem that the shoulder strike is a perfect fit in the vocabulary from this position, even if under neutral pressure. There is a lot to be developed here. Even as a threat (as a miss), it can get the opponent to posture up too high, and set up knees or a deep turn.

[Rich]

Are you asking if the shoulder strike has made clear what is not apparent in that particular tie up itself, at the first sight? or, if this was an opportunistic take by McGregor to exploit Cerrone’s in the ring tendencies?

[Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu]

49 minutes ago, Rich said:

Are you asking if the shoulder strike has made clear what is not apparent in that particular tie up itself, at the first sight? or, if this was an opportunistic take by McGregor to exploit Cerrone’s in the ring tendencies?

 

I'm, personally, not interested in its use in MMA, or this fight. I think because it came out of a common Thai clinch position it maybe exposes a few holes in the position, specifically in Thailand's Muay Thai (the ruleset and fighting style in the country, which is what I'm most familiar with). I'm not really openly asking anything though. I'm just thinking through the position, from a traditional Muay Thai perspective. There are always blindspots in fighting styles and customs, this seems like one of them, in a very narrow sense. Imagining this position with more optimal postures on the Cerrone side, it would be much harder to execute, but it is interesting to think through it's possible uses, even if more well-defended. This is complicated though by how it might be reffed or perceived within the traditional Thai ring.

[Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu]

51 minutes ago, Rich said:

Are you asking if the shoulder strike has made clear what is not apparent in that particular tie up itself...

 

A good example of this is that Cerrone has his "head in" pretty decently, in the sense that he's protecting from the elbow from the controlling arm, which in Thailand's Muay Thai would be the main concern (other than being manipulated and turned). This is a "not bad" head position, something that would not get punished. But, in this case, especially because he's grinding forward, he's exposed to the shoulder. The top of head here needs to be really tucked it, on the shoulder/collar/jaw bone, tick-in, which is a very strong Thai clinch response. But, where it is, is the "good enough" position in many Thailand fights because there is no concern for the shoulder strike.

[Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu]

A worthy article on the shoulder strike and it's use in MMA/wrestling:

Conor McGregor’s shoulder strike: A potential new trend, or an old classic briefly revamped?

[AndyMaBobs]

This is in part, why I make a lot of use out of one of my students being a very strong wrestler. The level of control you get from certain grips transfers to muay thai training very well - and because of that wrestling background, he is able to ragdoll even the strongest clinchers. Old school boxers used to train in wrestling in order to punch out of the clinch.

Having good thai-style clinching really helps my MMA guy, and having his wrestling ability has made the Thai boxers a lot more resilient in the clinch!