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Posts posted by WaffleNinja

  1. Some very cool and fun discussions going on here!



    I have to say I find myself torn in two very different directions when thinking about western ambitions and appropriations of Muay Thai. On one end we have very sincere, heart-felt, sometimes heart-aching reach toward an art that is perceived as beautiful, if violent, from the framework of the west. People yearn for "World Championship" belts, none of which are such, and cross great distances (both physical and mental) to achieve them, they learn all sorts of "Thai" things, get sak yant (I have them), and across gyms throughout the Land imitate what their coaches learned in the few months, or even years, they spent in the country. There is a great arcing towards "legitimacy" in the sport, almost a desperate need for it. And this has to be respected. This is the human condition. This is a beautiful thing. This is amazing. But, on the other hand almost all of this is fraudulent to some degree. There are no World Championship belts (no rankings), no, Max Muay Thai is not a legitimate, or perhaps one should say authentic Muay Thai fight promotion (it bills itself as "extreme entertainment" I believe). So much of encountering the "Thai" involves hiding film, or bullshitting away, showing "moves" you learned like parlor tricks, it feels like there is a great cabal of deception. And it feels like this has been going on for decades, as if Thailand were Las Vegas...what happens there, stays there.

    If anything we've learned in our 5 years here, and Sylvie's endless fighting, its that we are JUST learning about what Muay Thai is. We are still reaching toward and peeling back layers. And its fucking incredible. It feels bizarre to see claims or even ambitions to authenticity so far outside the country, when even in the country there is so much more to learn. I used to be much more against these faux World belts, or the use of Kru or Arjan by westerners (that once felt like a big deal, no longer), but following along it feels like a far shore that is absorbed in the distance by fog. That shore is just so proliferate, so wide and long. So many belts, so many truly yearning, leaning into achievement. You can't disparage it. All I can say is: Keep on going! But, in this way, it feels like we are heading for a different shore, one we cannot see at all, and only heard rumor of. Something less exotic, more mundane...something like: just the fight.


    Very good way of putting it! The argo sails ever onward.

    Hey Dana, honestly I'm not even aware of their attacks on Sylvie - or, if I was at some point aware I certainly have forgotten. I don't follow them, and I hardly follow people that follow them. But I guess it doesn't surprise me that they were part of that crew. So this isn't really clapping back. If it was I certainly would have published this as a guest post on Sylvie's blog, instead of keeping it here in my little corner of the internet read by 5 or 6 people.




    In my experience forums will have 10-20 lurkers for every active member. We're bigger than we think!



     It was really the quoted description itself that triggered me: OSU is based upon Kevin’s study of the Muay Thai philosophy of ‘osu’ (pronounced ‘oossss’) – the training mantra by which a student steels themselves against any hardship, physical or mental << Here you not only have misstatement of fact, its a misstatement in the tone of trying to educate someone (here is how this esoteric word is pronounced), and not only that, but that the film's deep character apparently came out of Kevin's "study" of this concept/principle, a study which may not even have involved knowing where it came from. I'm sorry, this does more than make me shake my head. It makes me say WTF? Now maybe none of this came form Kevin Ross, or even the film makers. Maybe it's this MMA writer's creation, but come on now. If you are going to take up an authoritative tone, and look like you are passing on some knowledge of Muay Thai and it's culture, please have some grasp of reality? 


    The comedy writes itself.  :laugh: Its a common theme when I see Westerners try and step into the cultural realm of Muay Thai. The fishbowl swirls on. Kinda reminds me of that time the Thai girl had to pretend to be French and they named her Steven or something lol


    if they had painted Kevin Ross's eyes to be slanted so he looked more "Asian" that would be problem...or at least problematic, not to mention humorous in the wrong way. 


    I dunno man, Gilbert and Sullivan pulled it off:




    ...I should add. One of the most amazing things about Muay Thai that you discover when you spend a long time in Thailand is how mundane it is. It is not some exotic, delicate flower. It's living in 1000s of dusty, tiny gyms. In the minds of 1000s of two-bit fighters turned trainers. There isn't anything purist about it. It would be like being a purist about western boxing in the US in the 1950s. There is no "Muay Thai", there are just thousands and thousands of Muay Thai expressions. This doesn't mean that Muay Thai doesn't have definable characteristics, or that it isn't intimately "Thai", come right from the soil of Thai culture and belief. But there is nothing really to be purist about. It's an incredible every-day thing. It's like being a purist about how a newpaper is read in New York. Okay, there is the whole subway fold. There is the cafe lean back and flap of the pages. But it really is just rather mundane. Or, at least it strikes me that way. One really only becomes a purist of newspaper reading when people no longer read newspapers, seeking to preserve a lost thing, or it's a thing you are cut off from by time or distance. You can imagine former German exchange students arguing about real NYC newspaper reading back in Berlin. Muay Thai isn't really there, at least in Thailand.

    In Thailand though of course there are ideological battles that surround Muay Thai, and how it portrays or demonstrates Thai history, and National character. These are different kinds of questions, questions important to Thais.

    This is a great analogy that really shows how silly the exoticism can be. I have a crystal clear image of that German guy in my head  :laugh:

    • Like 2
  2. I find it fascinating to gaze into the fish bowl that is American kickfighting culture as it develops via foreign influence and local interaction. The way it went from Bruce Lee movies, to Karate class, to long pants fighting, to a subset of the UFC. The strict dividing lines drawn in the progenitor cultures never really existed. However, there are also those like us; an esoteric clique that has reached into the murky waters to reveal the underlying origins in their pure form. And I suspect that thanks to the internet, the social prestige we hold will lead to the permeation of Thai culture into more general "striking" culture. With this progression in mind, an American Muay Thai pioneer being intimately linked to a term spread through Japanese Karate is oddly fitting. A symbol of the 2010 trendy blend. Perhaps one day a curious relic for a purified future.

    • Like 2
  3. Hey friends! I was on youtube today and I found a cool youtube channel. It is run by female nak muays Katya Knysheva and Sandra Godvik. Katya is a 59kg champion at Bangla stadium, Sandra is the 48kg Swedish champion. They live and train in Phuket. They upload vlogs and HLs of their fights on the channel. They have some cool fights including a fight on the queens birthday with a broken arm! 




    Their Awakening profiles:





  4. I was so happy for Nunes, she is so cool. I think she will be an even better ambassador for female fights than Ronda. Hopefully we get to see Nunes vs Cyborg one day.


    Did anyone here catch the Rizin NYE events? There were definitely some rocked out female bodies on display. They are very open towards the masculine female body type there:


    Gabi Garcia:




    Rin Nakai:




    Jazzy Alpha Female:



  5. That might have been the technical, legal reason, but this does ignore the very subtle fact that the removal of clothing, and the showing of the female body is essentially the customary dress on a French beach. This is "normal". Everyone does it, it is a socially sexualized place to a large degree, where bodies are watched and judged for attractiveness. I somehow doubt that 4 police officers would have approached this Muslim woman if she was wearing her burkini, walking down the street.

    I think in the context of the United Nations pursuing the rights of women across the different cultures of the world, it is ill advised to treat scenarios like this as a counterweight to the social challenges faced by women that go in the oppose direction at much greater scale and magnitude. Countries which ban religious symbols like the niqab and burqa also ban symbols which have no bearing on ones perceived sexuality such as cross necklaces. It happens in settings like classrooms which are in no way sexualized. A woman who goes to the beach in a hoodie and track pants, a religion-free "desexualization," are at no risk of cops coming to enforce a "resexualization." There are indeed social pressures on people to conform to ideals of physical attraction which are often unrealistic, but specifically in the context of addressing global disadvantages that affect women I think it is appropriate to prioritize corporal autonomy.



    I imagine that the UN would want someone who transcends culture to some degree, and does not represent one.

    I think that there is a difference between what is allowed, and what is celebrated. I think it would be awesome if sartorial choice and autonomy could be celebrated, but there are differing standards in cultures. I guess I would ask this: Would a topless female character, with very enhanced breasts and prominent nipples be suitable for a UN campaign to raise awareness about female violence? I'm not saying such a character would categorically not be, but I am saying that we are very accustomed to the state of undress, and hypersexualizing of female "bad ass" women. It's not just a case of: Let Wonder Woman wear what she wants.re: "I think it is necessary and possible that all types of womens dress is allowed and that includes sexy."

    Here is an interesting example of another woman who chooses to wear less when she goes into battle, humorously juxtaposed below:


    I'm not sure that we can, or even should, separate these kinds of by-men-for-men illustrative examples, when discussing the kinds of powerful and widespread violence against women that the UN is trying to make us aware of. This is not even considering the fact that so many woman don't have these kinds of bodies, and we should ask how much we want to hold these bodies types as ideals of female power.

    Ya, I agree, I would never nominate Wonder Woman for the position for this reason alone. I'm still not sure what kind of figure the UN should go with, assuming they don't just sweep this controversy under the rug and forego choosing a replacement.

    • Like 1
  6. Isn’t it an important message to send to girls and women that they can control how they dress, how they look, how sexy they want to be and that they have ownership over their own bodies? I feel like the UN just sexy-shamed Wonder Woman. Like, how dare a sexy woman (a fictional character!) want to stand up for girls and women around the world? Get thee to a nunnery, Wonder Woman! You cannot have cleavage AND fight for women’s rights, don’t you know?

    The way they word it, it seems like its not because she herself is sexy, but because she is sexualized and objectified by some ominous third party. Rendered in the passive form, perceived as a recipient. I'm not sure what could satisfy all parties in this one. A woman who could be sexy but chooses not to be as not to be sexualized? It does sound a bit nunish doesn't it lol

  7. I wasn't following the controversy. What was the story about that?

    Meksen said on facebook that she was being sabotaged the whole time and got robbed. Apparently someone backstage ran over her foot with a cart, a ringside doctor put disinfectant in her eyes, the other girl was headbutting without being penalized and the judges robbed her. A clash of heads did cut Meksen's nose really badly, but it didn't seem intentional to me. 

  8. I found a HL video which includes clips from the ever elusive and apparently controversial match between Anissa Meksen and E Mei Die:




    Edit: I found the full video! You need a Chinese VPN to watch but here it is:






    Not the terrible robbery it was made out to be, just the hometown girl being favored in a close match. I did score it for Meksen though.

    • Like 1
  9. Yes! Sorry that it's been quiet on that front for a little while..We've just had some problems getting new episodes done recently. We've sat down to record a new episode several times and each time, our plans have been thwarted by some kind of shitty internet problem. Working on getting a new one out ASAP! Anything you'd like us to cover in the next one?

    Personally I really like when you and Sylvie discuss the Thai female fight scene. I can keep track of the big names like Chomanee and Loma, but there is a ton of world class talent over there that completely flies under the Anglophone radar. Good luck with the shitty internet problems in the future  :laugh:

    • Like 2
  10. Remember Tessa, the girl who beat Lomanee? She apparently got some press on a Finnish show:




    I don't understand Finnish but it sounds so magical. It sounds like its from LoTR or GoT. 


    Does anyone know if Phetpaya or Penphet have fought recently? I am excited to see their careers progress.

    • Like 1
  11. Thananchanok R.R.KilaLampang (Red/Thai) vs Phetpayar Mor.KrungthepThonburi (Blue/Thai) 8/11/2016

    Queen’s birthday fight ★ WPMF Light Fly Weight Championship (Female) 108 lbs


    Damn that 4th round was nuts! Also I had the fight for Petpaya. Does WPMF have different judging or something like that?

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