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Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu

Keto in Thailand - For Snacking Pork Rinds / Cracklin in Chiang Mai

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Something that makes a great Keto snack. One of the things you can miss on Keto is crunchy things. In Chiang Mai there is a great source for pork rinds. Not only are there levels of light or heavy thickness, there is a spicy green sauce that you can get. Together they are like chips and salsa.  We get bags of these and bring them back to Pattaya every time we visit.

Map of where it is:

https://goo.gl/maps/Wdw9k77xRpe9FMm66

 

 

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I can't even say how great these are at times. I big struggle with Keto can be mouth feel, and the giant, indeed incredible chips and salsa thing is sometimes amazing. I almost love that sour-ish pepper blend more than salsa. Add in cheddar cheese and you have the makings of nachos. I keep telling myself I'm going to make nachos with these. Help remind me Sylvie!

Here's a breakdown of cracklin vs pork rind I never understood.

Pork Rinds and Cracklin in Thailand.PNG

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On 6/10/2019 at 1:11 AM, Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu said:

Something that makes a great Keto snack. One of the things you can miss on Keto is crunchy things. In Chiang Mai there is a great source for pork rinds. Not only are there levels of light or heavy thickness, there is a spicy green sauce that you can get. Together they are like chips and salsa.  We get bags of these and bring them back to Pattaya every time we visit.

Map of where it is:

https://goo.gl/maps/Wdw9k77xRpe9FMm66

 

 

Eeruhm not sure about pork rinds. Did you ask what kind of oils were used in making these? 

Pork rinds are usually what is referred to as dirty keto when you take an IIFYM approach to it and not looking at micronutrients.

In my understanding the whole point of being keto is to remove inflammation in the body. But pork rinds are in general done using cooking oil and most places in Thailand they will use industrial seed or veggie oils. The chemical extraction and high heat industrial processes that take place when manufacturing these may damage the omega-6 fats making them inflammatory and might disrupt cell membrane structures. I had to look it up as i was really struggling with finding snacks while on keto (most people will start overeating nuts or start these almond flour bakes etc not very keto and you will not lose weight). 

I can recommend kale chips:

  1. Preheat the oven to 275 degrees F.
  2. Remove the ribs from the kale and cut into 1 1/2-inch pieces. Lay on a baking sheet and toss with the olive oil and salt. Bake until crisp, turning the leaves halfway through, about 20 minutes. Serve as finger food.

 

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7 hours ago, LengLeng said:

In my understanding the whole point of being keto is to remove inflammation in the body.

To be really honest, there is no "whole point of keto". There are many differing points to keto, or at least proposed benefits to keto, and fighting inflammation is a popular claim. Things like managing blood glucose spikes, insulin insensitivity, in 1+1 Keto autophagy cell repair, for Sylvie managing Depression, producing more endurance, just to name a few.  I have seen people vigorously claim that vegetable oils are inflammatory, especially those in street food, but I've never seen this rigorously proven in studies. Mostly all one can do is identify inflammatory markers, and build theoretical models that guess at correlations.

7 hours ago, LengLeng said:

Pork rinds are usually what is referred to as dirty keto

Yes, definitely "dirty" keto (a pejorative word, but hey, let's go with it), but it really depends on your aims in diet, right? If you are going to eat keto in Thailand the idea of frying up your own kale chips to replace buying porkrinds is probably a huge labor investment, and very likely a threat to the entire lifestyle possibility for a great number of people. In general in fact, if your aim is to eat Keto in Thailand and avoid the restaurant or stall wok, you are going to be cooking everything yourself, full time, not a reasonable thing for most - even having a stove top is rare.  I think grounding everything in a diet one can manage is the first step, and then you can move the diet toward your other ambitions. For instance, in Thailand we get a huge part of our dietary fat on keto through dairy. It provides great mouth feel (ahhh, heavy whipping cream in coffee...geez), a real sense of satisfaction, and for me a positive relationship to the food. But...what if you are someone who hears that dairy is "pro" inflammation? What does that mean? For some this means just moving cleaner and cleaner and getting as far away from supposed inflammatory foods. Is that a bad thing? No, I think not. But is makes your food choices very, very small. No heavy dairy. No bought wok foods. There is a study that says red meat (a core of many keto diets) risks gut inflammation. Ok, so no red meats. You find yourself in a very narrow sliver. I'm not saying that any of this is bad, people develop highly personal reasons why they eat, and how they eat, and getting cleaner and cleaner is a focus for some. But, I'm not really sure the keto diet is best for people pushing for cleaner and cleaner pictures of their diet, just impressionistically. Inflammation strikes me a little like the new fad fear. I'm not saying its an unfounded concern, but it is also easily word-dropped over and over as a global risk or benefit. It feels like it is way over used in describing the benefits of keto as well. Everything is cast in terms of inflammation lately. These anti- or pro- inflammation claims are very broad (thank you Internet!) and are always properly in terms of "may", but we take them whole-heartedly into a powerful picture about the body and diet. Hey, these pictures are good, they help inspire us and connect us to our diet, but they are probably very far from accurate. Much of the possibility of what makes keto special is that it smashes some pretty big pictures of what "healthy" was in terms of diet. In fact the whole "clean" vs "dirty" food picture was developed to forward diets quiet different than those of keto. People really thought, and some still think, that avoiding heavy "clogging" fats, and eating heaps "clean", "fast-burning" carbs was the epitome of clean and pure living. In fact much of the sugar industry was built upon images of clean and pure energy sources.

My thought is this. Diets need pleasures. The pleasure can be "damn, I really am eating clean!", or it can be "wow, I love that crunchy mouth feel, I miss that", or, "I like eating street food!". I really like going to this particular stand and picking up several bags of porkrinds (I never thought I would say that, hahaha) and some hot sauce. Is this pro-inflammation? Sure, I can imagine that that might be the case...or, maybe not. I'm also hoping that the varied anti-inflammation benefits of eating keto, like BHB metabolite, or adenosyne production (also pretty much unproven) balance these out. The same case made for high dairy fat, or red meat (where the science is divided).

I guess what I'm saying is: I love your kale chip recipe addition, but I'm not sure about the wholesale dismissal of other versions of keto as necessarily (proven) unhealthy, or going against the whole reason for eating keto in the first place. Dirty, is, well a dirty word, hahaha. For me it isn't so much that there is a claim out there that keto is the healthiest diet in the world. Yes, some people are very interested in doing keto in the healthiest way possible, just as there are "mega-healthy" vegan diets (which philosophically clash big time with keto), there are great YouTube videos of people calculating out their different Omegas, and weighing every piece. I think its much more about getting off the sugar train, and the basic difference that it can make to your brain chemistry and hormonal balance? And it may involve fat sources where the science is not settled.

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3 hours ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

To be really honest, there is no "whole point of keto". There are many differing points to keto, or at least proposed benefits to keto, and fighting inflammation is a popular claim. Things like managing blood glucose spikes, insulin insensitivity, in 1+1 Keto autophagy cell repair, for Sylvie managing Depression, producing more endurance, just to name a few.  I have seen people vigorously claim that vegetable oils are inflammatory, especially those in street food, but I've never seen this rigorously proven in studies. Mostly all one can do is identify inflammatory markers, and build theoretical models that guess at correlations.

Yes, definitely "dirty" keto (a pejorative word, but hey, let's go with it), but it really depends on your aims in diet, right? If you are going to eat keto in Thailand the idea of frying up your own kale chips to replace buying porkrinds is probably a huge labor investment, and very likely a threat to the entire lifestyle possibility for a great number of people. In general in fact, if your aim is to eat Keto in Thailand and avoid the restaurant or stall wok, you are going to be cooking everything yourself, full time, not a reasonable thing for most - even having a stove top is rare.  I think grounding everything in a diet one can manage is the first step, and then you can move the diet toward your other ambitions. For instance, in Thailand we get a huge part of our dietary fat on keto through dairy. It provides great mouth feel (ahhh, heavy whipping cream in coffee...geez), a real sense of satisfaction, and for me a positive relationship to the food. But...what if you are someone who hears that dairy is "pro" inflammation? What does that mean? For some this means just moving cleaner and cleaner and getting as far away from supposed inflammatory foods. Is that a bad thing? No, I think not. But is makes your food choices very, very small. No heavy dairy. No bought wok foods. There is a study that says red meat (a core of many keto diets) risks gut inflammation. Ok, so no red meats. You find yourself in a very narrow sliver. I'm not saying that any of this is bad, people develop highly personal reasons why they eat, and how they eat, and getting cleaner and cleaner is a focus for some. But, I'm not really sure the keto diet is best for people pushing for cleaner and cleaner pictures of their diet, just impressionistically. Inflammation strikes me a little like the new fad fear. I'm not saying its an unfounded concern, but it is also easily word-dropped over and over as a global risk or benefit. It feels like it is way over used in describing the benefits of keto as well. Everything is cast in terms of inflammation lately. These anti- or pro- inflammation claims are very broad (thank you Internet!) and are always properly in terms of "may", but we take them whole-heartedly into a powerful picture about the body and diet. Hey, these pictures are good, they help inspire us and connect us to our diet, but they are probably very far from accurate. Much of the possibility of what makes keto special is that it smashes some pretty big pictures of what "healthy" was in terms of diet. In fact the whole "clean" vs "dirty" food picture was developed to forward diets quiet different than those of keto. People really thought, and some still think, that avoiding heavy "clogging" fats, and eating heaps "clean", "fast-burning" carbs was the epitome of clean and pure living. In fact much of the sugar industry was built upon images of clean and pure energy sources.

My thought is this. Diets need pleasures. The pleasure can be "damn, I really am eating clean!", or it can be "wow, I love that crunchy mouth feel, I miss that", or, "I like eating street food!". I really like going to this particular stand and picking up several bags of porkrinds (I never thought I would say that, hahaha) and some hot sauce. Is this pro-inflammation? Sure, I can imagine that that might be the case...or, maybe not. I'm also hoping that the varied anti-inflammation benefits of eating keto, like BHB metabolite, or adenosyne production (also pretty much unproven) balance these out. The same case made for high dairy fat, or red meat (where the science is divided).

I guess what I'm saying is: I love your kale chip recipe addition, but I'm not sure about the wholesale dismissal of other versions of keto as necessarily (proven) unhealthy, or going against the whole reason for eating keto in the first place. Dirty, is, well a dirty word, hahaha. For me it isn't so much that there is a claim out there that keto is the healthiest diet in the world. Yes, some people are very interested in doing keto in the healthiest way possible, just as there are "mega-healthy" vegan diets (which philosophically clash big time with keto), there are great YouTube videos of people calculating out their different Omegas, and weighing every piece. I think its much more about getting off the sugar train, and the basic difference that it can make to your brain chemistry and hormonal balance? And it may involve fat sources where the science is not settled.

I wholeheartedly agree with your views on how people think of "clean food". Like I don't think acai bowls are healthy just because the look pretty and smoothies seem like dessert but suddenly this is healthy food?

I didn't mean to be critical, I just elaborated. I believe in keto. Especially if you have some autoimmune disease or blood sugar issues. And I even tried carnivore diet which to me felt pretty clean (just too expensive and difficult to sustain). More so I believe in keto because it challenges all these norms about what food is supposedly clean or healthy. It's amazing to be able to use a different metabolic process to get energy and the energy on keto is amazing. I'm a fan of D'Agostino and his research and I think we're not even close to understand the benefits of this diet. 

For me though as I've been low carb (lchf/keto/paleo/low GI all of it)for more than a decade due to hypoglycemia as a result of seven years of eating disorders in my teens (I still suffer from some of its side effects) it was a liberation to be able to eat carbs again. Something I learnt from a nutritional macros coaching I did some years back. 

So now I'm in a position to choose. And in Thailand I felt that the keto food options didn't really work for me (my skin broke out when usually keto does wonders for my complexion).So I've opted for a more paleo approach. But when I feel I need a reset I do a water fast (I did 50hrs this week inspired by you guys) or keto for a limited period of time (I do the test strips and I measure my blood glucose). I also cannot have dairy which adds to the difficulty. 

But if staying in ketosis would be my priority I definitely would go for pork rinds as a snack because hey we need that too and without these things any dietary lifestyle is hard to sustain. I mos def agree with you on food as pleasure (I love my beer or wine for example ehrm).

 

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10 minutes ago, LengLeng said:

For me though as I've been low carb (lchf/keto/paleo/low GI all of it)for more than a decade due to hypoglycemia as a result of seven years of eating disorders in my teens (I still suffer from some of its side effects) it was a liberation to be able to eat carbs again. Something I learnt from a nutritional macros coaching I did some years back. 

So now I'm in a position to choose. And in Thailand I felt that the keto food options didn't really work for me (my skin broke out when usually keto does wonders for my complexion).So I've opted for a more paleo approach. But when I feel I need a reset I do a water fast (I did 50hrs this week inspired by you guys) or keto for a limited period of time (I do the test strips and I measure my blood glucose). I also cannot have dairy which adds to the difficulty. 

But if staying in ketosis would be my priority I definitely would go for pork rinds as a snack because hey we need that too and without these things any dietary lifestyle is hard to sustain. I mos def agree with you on food as pleasure (I love my beer or wine for example ehrm).

I love hearing about your, and really anyone's keto lifestyle path. There is something about the diet that proves eclectic in terms of motivations of people, which makes it one of the most interesting diets/lifestyle choices out there. It almost allows an original choice for why and how one eats, perhaps because it breaks so many popular body/food pictures that we grew up with. I will say fasting every other day, as Sylvie and I do, for instance, is just mind blowing, if only in terms of it's like someone telling you you don't have to breathe every day. Wha? It's crazy to think that you could not eat every other day for the rest of your life, and never be hungry. Huh? Keto is kind of like that maybe, it goes against so many expectations and inculcated instincts, and truthfully, the science is interesting and suggestively positive, but it is also really unsettled. So, it's a kind of no-man's-land of personal choices, it seems.

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1 hour ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

I love hearing about your, and really anyone's keto lifestyle path. There is something about the diet that proves eclectic in terms of motivations of people, which makes it one of the most interesting diets/lifestyle choices out there. It almost allows an original choice for why and how one eats, perhaps because it breaks so many popular body/food pictures that we grew up with. I will say fasting every other day, as Sylvie and I do, for instance, is just mind blowing, if only in terms of it's like someone telling you you don't have to breathe every day. Wha? It's crazy to think that you could not eat every other day for the rest of your life, and never be hungry. Huh? Keto is kind of like that maybe, it goes against so many expectations and inculcated instincts, and truthfully, the science is interesting and suggestively positive, but it is also really unsettled. So, it's a kind of no-man's-land of personal choices, it seems.

Thank you! I don't know how you do the every other day fasting (that discipline hey) But I agree. It's really interesting to hear other people's experiences and follow their biohacking endeavors and find out what is possible. It expands the world for all of us. It's also fascinating how people identify with food and use it to create a social order and community and when you choose to break the norm some people get offended. "What you don't eat bread but what do you eat in the morning? 

Not keto, but nonetheless in the same vein of our discussion, the book "the Paleovedic Diet" by Dr. Akil Palanisamy has a lot of interesting thoughts on nutrition and his story how going from vegetarian to meat eater cured his illness is fascinating. You might have already stumbled upon this but if not it's worth a read, although I am not agreeing 100% with him. 

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30 minutes ago, LengLeng said:

 I don't know how you do the every other day fasting (that discipline hey)

Actually, it's ridiculously easy. Hard to explain, because intermittent fasting (time windows) was a nightmare, but every other day just turns OFF the desire for food, or really thoughts about food, most of the time. There are days when Sylvie and I are like "are we eating today?" We literally can't remember, and it doesn't seem to matter. A very odd change in one's relationship to food.

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To add to the (hidden) benefits of Pork Rinds, they are high in glycine and protein found in collagen, which is pretty significant. Sylvie and I both take gelatin and collagen supplements.

from Reddit:

While you should not get 100% of you protein from collagen. Most people dont eat enough. Eating more has many benefits.

check this amazing podcast if you want to learn about glycine:

https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2018/01/08/why-you-need-glycine-a-panel-discussion/

02:43 Cliff Notes

If you are on the run, here are the cliff notes. Glycine is not an essential amino acid, because we can synthesize it. However, the overwhelming way in which we synthesize glycine depends on us using folate, and we only have so many needs to use folate, which means that our synthesis of glycine is restrained by that need. This would have been fine if we were a tiny vertebrate hundreds of millions of years ago when this pathway emerged, but we are very large animals, and we have a very high demand for collagen, which is one-third glycine.

We run a deficit of our ability to synthesize glycine relative to our needs of about 10 grams a day, and that’s a conservative estimate. For people who have high rates of collagen turnover and poor recovery of glycine, they could run glycine deficits up to 40-60 grams per day.

Traditional human diets utilized collagen-rich tissues, the best sources of glycine, such as skin and bones. An animal carcass might be half collagen, and you would be economically restrained in the pre-modern era to use most of that collagen in a way that you really don’t quite use if all you’re doing with it is boiling the bones to make bone broth.

But, it may be an intrinsic part of our biology that we run a glycine deficit, and the most compelling thing that Alex brings up in this podcast is that even animals who did not have traditional diets that were rich in collagen run this glycine deficit, and you can’t justify it based on eating an unnatural diet. So it seems to be a really intrinsic part of the biology of large vertebrates that we all run a glycine deficit, and traditional human diets just mitigated that through the thorough utilization of skin and bones.

Across animal and human studies, glycine has many benefits. In animals, it protects against the metabolic dysfunction caused by obesogenic diets. In diabetes, it protects many organs. It protects the liver, the kidneys, the eyes, the brain, et cetera. It has anti-inflammatory effects that might protect against the harmful effects of endotoxin. So for gut dysbiosis or high-fat diets that promote the absorption of endotoxin from the gut, glycine may protect against that.

In humans, the most compelling uses of glycine are as follows: 3-5 grams of glycine before a meal protects against rises in blood sugar after that meal; 15 grams of glycine per day protects type 2 diabetics from metabolic dysfunction; 3 grams of glycine before sleep improves your ability to fall asleep and your sleep quality so that you feel more rested when you rise during the day; 15 grams of gelatin taken before a workout with about 50 milligrams of vitamin C promotes getting that collagen into your tendons to help your tendon health.

There are rare metabolic disorders that are treated with 20 grams of glycine a day, which prevents the accumulation of ammonia and the toxic effects of metabolic byproducts that accumulate in those diseases. And in schizophrenia, 60 grams of glycine a day has shown beneficial antipsychotic effects.

We also know from the biochemistry that glycine is important to detoxification directly. It’s important to synthesize glutathione, which is used in detoxification, and is the most powerful antioxidant we have, and is strongly protective against asthma and other lung conditions.

Best way to take glycine is to use a gelatin or collagen supplement. Hydrolyzed collagen has better bioavailability than gelatin. Out of the hydrolyzed collagen supplements, Great Lakes is a great option because it balances cost effectiveness with transparency around testing for contaminants. But although Vital Proteins costs more, they use an enzymatic process rather than a heat-mediated process to digest the collagen peptides, and at least some people digestively tolerate Vital Proteins the best.

About 2 rounded tablespoons of hydrolyzed collagen generally provides 3-4 grams of glycine. Depending on your priorities, you could take it before your workout, before each meal, or before bed, or all of those. You can also take glycine as a pure powder. It’s sweet, and you can use it to replace your sweeteners.

Glycine is overwhelmingly safe. The only potential risk is that collagen, because of its hydroxyproline content, may raise oxalate levels in the urine. If you’re concerned about that, listen to the podcast in full detail to get my suggestions around testing and around protective factors in the diet to make sure that that does not increase your risk of kidney stones.

Another source on the benefits of glycine:

Benefits of Glycine

For sleep: Glycine influences sleep in a number of ways. Studies show that higher levels of this amino acid may:

  • Help you fall asleep more quickly
  • Increase your sleep efficiency
  • Reduce symptoms of insomnia
  • Improve sleep quality and promote deeper more restful sleep

How does glycine accomplish all this sleep-promoting work? It appears to affect sleep in at least a couple of important ways:

Glycine helps lower body temperature. Glycine works to increase blood flow to the body’s extremities, which reduces core body temperature. I’ve written before about how the body’s fluctuating temperature affects sleep-wake cycles, and your ability to initially fall asleep. A slight drop in body temp is a key part of the body’s physical progression into sleep. A recent study of the effects of glycine as a supplement showed it triggered a drop in body temperature and at the same time helped people both fall asleep more quickly and spend more time in REM sleep. Other research has shown supplemental glycine may help you move more quickly into deep, slow wave sleep.

Glycine increases serotonin levels. Serotonin has a complex relationship to sleep. Among other things, serotonin is required to make the sleep hormone melatonin. In people who have difficulty sleeping or sleep disorders such as insomnia and sleep apnea, increasing serotonin levels can help restore healthy sleep patterns, and encourage deeper, more restful and refreshing sleep.  Research shows oral glycine elevates serotonin, reduces symptoms of insomnia, and improves sleep quality. Other studies suggest it may help you bounce back to healthy sleep cycles after a period of disrupted sleep.

For cognitive and memory enhancement: Glycine is active in the hippocampus, an area of the brain important for memory and learning. In supplement form, glycine appears to deliver benefits for daytime cognitive function. In the same study that showed supplemental glycine made it easier to fall asleep and get to slow-wave sleep, scientists also found people scored higher on daytime cognition tests. And supplemental glycine has been shown to improve both memory and attention in young adults. Scientists are actively investigating the use of glycine in the treatment of neurodegenerative disorders such as Alzheimer’s disease.

For cardiovascular health: Glycine works to support immune health and keep inflammation in check, offering protection to cardiovascular function. It also functions as an antioxidant, helping to trap and contain damaged cells that can cause disease. Higher levels of glycine have been associated with a lower risk of heart attack, and there’s some evidence that glycine may help protect against high blood pressure. Still, the full relationship between glycine and cardiovascular health is something scientists are still working to better understand.

For joint and bone health: Glycine is one of the most important, protein-fueling amino acids in the body. It supplies our muscles, bones, and connective tissues with collagen, the protein that is essential to your strength, stability, and healthy physical function. As we age, collagen levels in the body naturally decrease. Glycine is also very effective at suppressing inflammation. Supplemental doses of glycine may help strengthen bones and joints, and may help prevent arthritis.

For metabolic health: Glycine plays an important role in a healthy metabolism. Low levels of glycine are linked to greater risk for development of type 2 diabetes. On the other hand, higher glycine levels are associated with lower risk for this metabolic disorder. But it’s not yet clear what the cause and effect are in this relationship: whether low glycine levels directly contribute to metabolic dysfunction that lead to diabetes, or whether they’re a result of metabolic dysfunction already in progress.

Studies show glycine can be effective in lowering blood sugar levels and increasing insulin production in healthy adults. In people with type 2 diabetes, studies have shown that glycine deficiencies can be improved by use of oral glycine. Other research suggests that in people with diabetes, oral glycine can lower blood sugar levels.

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