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Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu

10 Day Test to See if Keto is For You

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This diet can produce radical changes in your life. It has been known to address serious depression, improve autism, improve body composition, boost endurance, brighten cognition, among many other things. But, it is not for everyone. I lost 80 lbs on it in a year, and it definitely improved my mental states, for some it is worth a try.

I was thinking about the nature of the Ketogenic Diet and how a lot of people give it a try and have a pretty rough go of it. I think there is some evidence, or maybe just common sense reasoning, that a ketogenic diet may affect people differently. If your ancestors passed through times of famine more than another person's it makes sense that they have selected advantages from famine-like states, which someone else might have fewer. Much of keto, and Sylvie's version of Keto 1+1, is tapping into these possible advantages, minimizing inflammation, accelerating cell repair, etc. Complicating this is that it is the suspicion that many people who try the ketogenic diet make one serious mistake. States of ketosis can flush your body of electrolytes like sodium, potassium and magnesium, especially in the first few days. Supplementing with these is a big deal on keto, especially if you are a training athlete. It's very likely that the negative experiences some people have is because of deletions. If you look up potassium depletion or magnesium, the symptoms are not awesome. So, what is an easy way to see if the keto diet is for you? I thought up this basic 10 day approach:

Is Keto Right For You..PNG

One of the biggest things you are doing when you move to keto is becoming fat adapted. Fat adaptation occurs when you body stops looking for sugars to burn and starts burning fats instead. There is thought to be a 10 to 14 day fat adaption period before this really starts to kick in, and there is strong, suggestive evidence that this adaption just gets stronger and stronger as your body starts to produce more mitochondria (cell engines) that can burn fats. Remember, this doesn't make you skinny or lose weight, but it can change your body composition and it you will lose weight if your calories are in check. What the 3 days of fasting will do is reboot your body toward fat adaption right away. When your body is in ketosis it is in a simulated fasting state. Nothing will put you in this state quicker than fasting. The 3 days of fasting will reset where you are, not only physically, but psychologically. Then, as you add a ketogenically designed diet, and Google will help you with that. You are already on the ketogenic track.

Supplement: Important in all of this is that you need to supplement potassium (we use Creme of Tartar, mixed with some club soda, 2 teaspoons or so - don't over do this) and magnesium (over the counter). Also supplementing with salt, at least a teaspoon a day, 2 if you are training, and lots of water  - this supplementation, which can be a pain, is important because it takes care of the one area that can negatively impact you.

Then, for 7 days just eat keto, and continue supplementation. If it is right for you you'll feel it pretty quickly. You should gain mental clarity, and start to feel changes physically. By 10 Days time you should be able to say: I like where this is heading! ...or, Nah, it isn't what I want. Some people say 14 days, I've seen 1 month. But I really think with the 3 day fast as the reboot, and the supplementation, in 10 days you'd really know.

 

*note potassium supplementation is something that is very hard to even read about on the internet, and is not really available in regular forms. The reason for this seems to be that heavy overdose on potassium can prove fatal, it regulates electrical activity of the heart and other things, and honestly nobody wants to be libel for irresponsibility. But it an important dietary factor. If this is a concern look into how much potassium is worrisome (my research showed it is far below the potassium that Sylvie and I take). But research this for yourself. We found that potassium supplementation on a keto diet definitely improved mood and physical energy, it's something that can go low on keto because there are fewer dietary sources for it, and also because it can be flushed from the system.

 

 

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I've been interested in this since seeing about on Sylvie's YouTube. You guys made me aware of potassium deficiency. I was unaware what had been affecting me for years. The lack of potassium in my diet especially after hard sessions would cause me to feel like I had diabetes. So I would gorge on sugary shit. However just the other night, I decided to check my blood pressure when I had an episode (these had been few in recent weeks), I found my diastolic pressure to be low. Which is a symptomatic of potassium deficiency. I still don't get enough potassium but probably consume about 10 times more than I did. The effect on my heart is worrisome given the fact I've already had three heart attacks. Which leads me to the next question,  I wonder, given the fat intake whether or not I could do it? 

You guys validated a theory I quizzed my g.p about probably 3 or more years ago.  The relationship between adrenal stress, the production of cortisol and the storing of fat. My theory revolved around me being in chronic pain thus placing me in adrenal stress. She reckoned no. I reckon yes.

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When I lived elsewhere I was on keto on and off most of the time, having access to veggies, ghee and plenty of fatty beef this was easy. It definitely helped me change my body composition and I suddenly found myself having a very athletic frame. I assume this because of doing Olympic lifting and crossfit while eating more than enough, especially protein. My skin and hair enjoy the extra fats and my stomach is calm. Before I was low carb due to history of blood sugar issues (hyperglycemia). I also did longer water fasts (5 days) always supplementing with sodium. 

In Thailand though, I cannot. Maybe it's the lifestyle or fats available or that I prefer to eat fatty beef while on keto which is expensive here. It just makes me lose water weight fast then something kicks me off keto and I start retaining water etc feeling very uncomfortable. So I settled for something paleo inspired.

Being in ketosis was great, I felt the mental clarity and never hungry. Energy was also never an issue. However, I felt it was difficult to combine with longer workouts that contained high intensity. And I got so hyper I couldn't sleep which is a big issue for me as an insomniac (diagnosed and all). 

Regarding potassium I actually went to hospital once for chest pains and shortness of breath. I felt extremely awful and a heart attack was suspected even though I was in my 20s. However tests came back showing signs of low potassium levels, they gave me some water with potassium powder and within 20 minutes I felt awesome again. I discussed this with my GP but she wouldn't prescribe any potassium before doing a new test which came back normal. And the pharmacy in Germany, where I lived at the time, wouldn't sell potassium over the counter. They made such a big deal out of it that I never tried supplementing and I also never felt that awful again. 

I would definitely try keto just to get to know your body. I do believe it has amazing benefits. But also be aware of the keto flu, it's temporary but you can feel really awful for a couple of days while body is adjusting to new way of producing energy. Also apparently there's something called keto rash, also temporarily. 

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3 hours ago, Jeremy Stewart said:

However just the other night, I decided to check my blood pressure when I had an episode (these had been few in recent weeks), I found my diastolic pressure to be low.

I don't want to say what the right amount of potassium is for a person. I'll just say that we took the regular daily minimum, and put a fair percent on top of that. It was far, far below the worrisome amount (which is even not very documented, and some sources say has been overstated). Many, many things are dangerous in huge amounts. The amount you have to take seems truly huge, not something you would accidentally reach. The thing is, figure out your mg (many sources say:  3,500–4,700 mg) and then do a little calculation to make sure you are at least around there. 

2 hours ago, LengLeng said:

And the pharmacy in Germany, where I lived at the time, wouldn't sell potassium over the counter. They made such a big deal out of it that I never tried supplementing

Yes, it seems like the industry felt like if they created a potassium pill then someone crazy would take 20 of them, and there would be a serious problem. So they just made zero potassium supplementation. (Almost all potassium supplementation product is extremely low.)

 

4 hours ago, Jeremy Stewart said:

I wonder, given the fat intake whether or not I could do it? 

In which way do you mean? Do you mean that cardiovascular health advice frequently argues for low-fat?

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3 hours ago, LengLeng said:

When I lived in southern Africa I was on keto on and off most of the time, having access to veggies, ghee and plenty of fatty beef this was easy. It definitely helped me change my body composition and I suddenly found myself having a very athletic frame. I assume this because of doing Olympic lifting and crossfit while eating more than enough, especially protein. My skin and hair enjoy the extra fats and my stomach is calm. Before I was low carb due to history of blood sugar issues (hyperglycemia). I also did longer water fasts (5 days) always supplementing with sodium. 

In Thailand though, I cannot. Maybe it's the lifestyle or fats available or that I prefer to eat fatty beef while on keto which is expensive here. It just makes me lose water weight fast then something kicks me off keto and I start retaining water etc feeling very uncomfortable. So I settled for something paleo inspired.

Being in ketosis was great  felt the mental clarity and never hungry. Energy was also never an issue. However I felt it was difficult to combine with longer workouts that contained high intensity. And I got so hyper I couldn't sleep which is a big issue for me as an insomniac (diagnosed and all). 

Regarding potassium I actually went to hospital once for chest pains and shortness of breath. I felt extremely awful and a heart attack was suspected even though I was in my 20s. However tests came back showing signs of low potassium levels, they gave me some water with potassium powder and within 20 minutes I felt awesome again. I discussed this with my GP but she wouldn't prescribe any potassium before doing a new test which came back normal. And the pharmacy in Germany, where I lived at the time, wouldn't sell potassium over the counter. They made such a big deal out of it that I never tried supplementing and I also never felt that awful again. 

I would definitely try keto just to get to know your body. I do believe it has amazing benefits. But also be aware of the keto flu, it's temporary but you can feel really awful for a couple of days while body is adjusting to new way of producing energy. Also apparently there's something called keto rash, also temporarily. 

I love this whole description. So balanced, and full of direct experience.

 

3 hours ago, LengLeng said:

In Thailand though, I cannot. Maybe it's the lifestyle or fats available or that I prefer to eat fatty beef while on keto which is expensive here.

This is a big thing, and maybe I think Sylvie should start a thread on Keto in Thailand. There are some amazing resources like the Healtholicious store in Bangkok,  which has things my mom can't even find in Los Angeles, run by a passionate keto lifestyle couple. But it can be very expensive. Much of this expense for us is cut by the fact that we are 1+1 Keto, which means almost zero food budget every other day when we fast. Also, being able to cook is not something most people who visit or even live in Thailand have access to, and that's a huge help.

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2 hours ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

I love this whole description. So balanced, and full of direct experience

 

This is a big thing, and maybe I think Sylvie should start a thread on Keto in Thailand. There are some amazing resources like the Healtholicious store in Bangkok,  which has things my mom can't even find in Los Angeles, run by a passionate keto lifestyle couple. But it can be very expensive. Much of this expense for us is cut by the fact that we are 1+1 Keto, which means almost zero food budget every other day when we fast. Also, being able to cook is not something most people who visit or even live in Thailand have access to, and that's a huge help.

Thank you! I've been meaning to check out their shop for a while now, very interested in their bone broth/collagen products. I think I'll give it a visit next week got inspired to give keto another try reading this thread. 😊

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This thread is pretty awesome. I'm currently water fasting again, so I suppose I should try Keto when I'm done since I'll already be in ketosis and fat adapted and all. The thing I'm finding psychologically hard with keto isn't even the radical change of diet, it's simply getting used to meticulously preparing your meal and being mindful of macros. It's like doing the dishes. It overwhelms me so bad lol.

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19 minutes ago, Kero Tide said:

I'm currently water fasting again

Hey, it sucks for people to say what you "should" do, but I think you'd feel even better on fasts if you supplemented with salt (Sylvie can tell you how delicious salt water is...hahahaha) and potassium (very minor cals, like 3), and magnesium.

 

21 minutes ago, Kero Tide said:

when I'm done since I'll already be in ketosis and fat adapted and all.

Yep, you've got a leg up on fat adaption already! Already the hunger is killed.

22 minutes ago, Kero Tide said:

it's simply getting used to meticulously preparing your meal and being mindful of macros

You don't have to micro-manage everything. If you are willing to eat the same stuff and aren't super into "healthy" you can do a very crude version of the diet. Sylvie and I, in our first weeks in, just cooked up a bunch of bacon, like a ton, and just put it in the fridge. Then we dumped a bunch of whipping cream in coffee. It was bacon and cream, basically. Get some of that heavy brie France is known for, throw in some salads which are awesome, some very high level dark chocolate and you basically have a keto toolbox, just to get started. You might want to then start to tune it up and make it more healthy, eventually getting the diet where you want it. But, within the short stretch you'd at least get a sense whether your body likes it or not.

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15 hours ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

Hey, it sucks for people to say what you "should" do, but I think you'd feel even better on fasts if you supplemented with salt (Sylvie can tell you how delicious salt water is...hahahaha) and potassium (very minor cals, like 3), and magnesium.

Yeah but coming from you it's totally fine, and I'm always thankful for your input. I have electrolytes supplements - and I'm familiar with the horrible taste of salt lol. But I'm not going to use any during that fast. I'll be super depleted and tired but that's okay, I'm not supposed to do any kind of strenuous exercises anyway. I'm just supposed to let the body heal itself, so I'll be doing lots of sleeping.

 

15 hours ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

Sylvie and I, in our first weeks in, just cooked up a bunch of bacon, like a ton, and just put it in the fridge. Then we dumped a bunch of whipping cream in coffee. It was bacon and cream, basically. Get some of that heavy brie France is known for, throw in some salads which are awesome, some very high level dark chocolate and you basically have a keto toolbox, just to get started. You might want to then start to tune it up and make it more healthy, eventually getting the diet where you want it. But, within the short stretch you'd at least get a sense whether your body likes it or not.

Oh, that sounds way more manageable thanks. Also not really yummy - except for the chocolate part haha. I don't even know what bacon looks like when it's not cooked. I'll try to find and eat keto veggies/fruits when I break my fast because my body will be very sensitive and going straight to dairy and meat isn't recommended. But I'll eventually eat that too just to see how it goes. Whatever I'll be eating during keto cannot be as unhealthy as whatever I've been eating these past months/years on a carb diet, so I'm not fussed. That said I really don't like the taste of meat. But I'm fine with fishes and cheese.

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13 minutes ago, Kero Tide said:

I'll try to find and eat keto veggies/fruits when I break my fast because my body will be very

Yeah, you really should not consume many keto "friendly" fruits, especially in this stretch. Fructose is a really bad sugar for ketosis and becoming fat adapted. It goes straight to the liver and will knock out you out of ketosis. There are lots of websites and such that push "keto friendly" fruits, but they mostly are trying to expand the lifestyle, and make it appeal to a wider audience, not to mention clickbaiting themselves. Just my opinion, but you really want to avoid these. Maybe when you are fat adapted your body can handle it, but cheating the system (trying to get your sugar) from the get go isn't ideal. The whole point is to get you off of sugar, which means basically to starve it of sugar, especially in the beginning. Keto friendly vegs are better, but even those you have to be careful of in the beginning. It's really easy to go past your 50 gms in carbs. I would just suggest that instead of comparing your 7 days (post fast) to your current eating (and trying get as much as your current palette as you can (fruit, vegs), instead you imagine that you are doing a 10 day fast, but on in which instead of nothing you are able to also eat fat-rich foods. Your body will still read it as fasting. Of course, do whatever feels good, but if you are using it as a 10 day test you probably want to be super strict for 10 days, just so you can baseline it. Yeah, it's not going to feel yummy, but one of the most interesting things about 1+1 Keto and just straight keto, is really changes the role of food in your life. First of it does that by killing almost all hunger. It's weird. I wake up after 36 hrs of fast and I don't even want food. Food used to preoccupy my mind like 24/7. It was the next stress relief. Keto breaks that, because it breaks the chain of sugar. The other way it breaks that relationship is that in the beginning keto foods are just way off palette. Everything feels TOO heavy. too rich. And we've been conditioned to feel like these are unhealthy. Fruit, which is basically crack cocaine for your body, has been coded as ultra healthy, super "lite", "fresh", "clean". Keto stuff feels heavy and un-healthy. A lot of this is just conditioning. By taking on a different palette you start to change your relationship to food. 

Over time, if you stay in it, new food pleasures kick in. Suddenly things become totally delicious, but for a while it's slogging. And maybe slogging is good.

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20 hours ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

I don't want to say what the right amount of potassium is for a person. I'll just say that we took the regular daily minimum, and put a fair percent on top of that. It was far, far below the worrisome amount (which is even not very documented, and some sources say has been overstated). Many, many things are dangerous in huge amounts. The amount you have to take seems truly huge, not something you would accidentally reach. The thing is, figure out your mg (many sources say:  3,500–4,700 mg) and then do a little calculation to make sure you are at least around there. 

Yes, it seems like the industry felt like if they created a potassium pill then someone crazy would take 20 of them, and there would be a serious problem. So they just made zero potassium supplementation. (Almost all potassium supplementation product is extremely low.)

 

In which way do you mean? Do you mean that cardiovascular health advice frequently argues for low-fat?

Yep. Exactly that fact, the frequent argument for low fat. That would be my only concern with regards to giving it a go.

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44 minutes ago, Jeremy Stewart said:

Yep. Exactly that fact, the frequent argument for low fat. That would be my only concern with regards to giving it a go.

You are going to find a lot of divided "science' on this, and frankly in many areas of keto diet health. One of the big reasons is that this simply is not studied over the long haul. Another reason is that the ketogenic diet advocates adhere to models of the body that really break from long standing - some would say "dogmatic" - ideas of how the body works. One of these is the general idea that if you eat fat it kind of then floats around in your blood and clogs things up. It's a plumber's analogy. If you pour fat down your kitchen sink enough you are going to get a clogged drain. There is a big "well of course it will!!" common sense about this. The problem is, that isn't how the body works. It isn't a kitchen sink. Now, this doesn't mean that eating fat heavy diets WON'T clog your arteries, it just means that the kitchen sink idea doesn't help explain if it will or won't.

All that being said, this is the Keto take on cardiovacular health and eating a low carb high fat diet:

The Keto Diet and Cholesterol

From my broad reading on this (and that article above is a good one) the basic argument is that yes, your cholesterol may go up, but the way that cholesterol is measured, traditionally, is missing the most important aspect: limpid size. A high fat, high carb diet produces very unhealthy limpid size, the kind of which clogs arteries. And because most of the dietary studies that come out against fight are based on high fat, HIGH carb data, it really isn't something to use to think about the keto diet. Keto crowd says its the combination of fats AND carbs that produces the problem. A keto diet will change your limpid size to something much safer.

But hey, when you have partisans who are advocates for a lifestyle, they are going to search and search for evidence, and come up with complicated models explaining data, especially when there is very little data available. So this makes good sense to me, limpid size seems way better than kitchen sink analogies, but...who knows!

Best would be to go to a doctor who has a sensitivity and a knowledge base that includes ketogenic benefits and some understanding of cardiac health, and see what they say. Next would maybe be to Google around and read up on the arguments on both sides. With 3 events already you have to imagine that things as they are are probably not awesome, so maybe anything that takes you toward just general healthy living, in terms of attitude or focus, could be more impactful than any single choice.

 

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17 minutes ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

With

 

17 minutes ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

You are going to find a lot of divided "science' on this, and frankly in many areas of keto diet health. One of the big reasons is that this simply is not studied over the long haul. Another reason is that the ketogenic diet advocates adhere to models of the body that really break from long standing - some would say "dogmatic" - ideas of how the body works. One of these is the general idea that if you eat fat it kind of then floats around in your blood and clogs things up. It's kind of a plumber's analogy. If you pour fat down your kitchen sink enough you are going to get clogged drain. There is a big "well of course it will!!" common sense about this. The problem is, that isn't how the body works. It isn't a kitchen sink. Now, this doesn't mean that eating fat heavy diets WON'T clog your arteries, it just means that the kitchen sink idea doesn't help explain if it will or won't.

All that being said, this is the Keto take on cardiovacular health and eating a low carb high fat diet:

The Keto Diet and Cholesterol

From my broad reading on this (and that article above is a good one) the basic argument is that yes, your cholesterol may go up, but the way that cholesterol is measured, traditionally, is missing the most important aspect: limpid size. A high fat, high carb diet produces very unhealthy limpid size, the kind of which clogs arteries. And because most of the dietary studies that come out against fight are based on high fat, HIGH carb data, it really isn't something to use to think about the keto diet. Keto crowd says its the combination of fats AND carbs that produces the problem. A keto diet will change your limpid size to something much safer.

But hey, when you have partisans who are advocates for a lifestyle, they are going to search and search for evidence, and come up with complicated models explaining data, especially when there is very little data available. So this makes good sense to me, limpid size seems way better than kitchen sink analogies, but...who knows!

Best would be to go to a doctor who has a sensitivity and a knowledge base that includes ketogenic benefits and some understanding of cardiac health, and see what they say. Next would maybe be to Google around and read up on the arguments on both sides. With 3 events already you have to imagine that things as they are are probably not awesome, so maybe anything that takes you toward just general healthy living, in terms of attitude or focus, could be more impactful than any single choice.

 

I'm  always on the outlook for something more healthy in general terms. My dad and I have discussed keto, he was the one who brought it up. I mentioned you guys. I currently eat a high protein,  low carb diet, lots of bananas and an apple or two. I've never been a sugar fan. I'm intrigued by placing your body in ketosis  as it makes a kind of caveman sense. I think my adrenal stress promotes the production of cortisol and the storing of fat.  My lower belly is my concern, and according to article I read the accumulation of fat in this area can be directly attributed to excess cortisol production.  So changing to a fat burning diet would get rid of this. To give you a picture, preback  surgery and cardiac problems, I was 80 kg. I ballooned to 130 kg. Over the last 2 years, I reduced my wait to 85kg and now sit comfortable at 100kg. I'm happy with this as along with Muay Thai,  I love lifting heavy weights for reps. I'm a bit of nugget as I'm only 5'8".

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25 minutes ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:
52 minutes ago, Jeremy Stewart said:

 

Bananas are super high in carbs. Do you mean low processed sugar, or low flour-based diet?

Wow. Thanks for that. I didn't realise. I eat bananas for potassium.  I was however referring to flour based carbohydrates. They are my enemy.😀 I read that article . I've  saved it and will look into it. 

Edited by Jeremy Stewart
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3 hours ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

Just my opinion, but you really want to avoid these. Maybe when you are fat adapted your body can handle it, but cheating the system (trying to get your sugar) from the get go isn't ideal. The whole point is to get you off of sugar, which means basically to starve it of sugar, especially in the beginning

Yes, I see what you mean. Thanks for insisting on this. I'll keep in mind to be strict about it then.

 

3 hours ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

First of it does that by killing almost all hunger. It's weird. I wake up after 36 hrs of fast and I don't even want food. Food used to preoccupy my mind like 24/7. It was the next stress relief. Keto breaks that, because it breaks the chain of sugar. The other way it breaks that relationship is that in the beginning keto foods are just way off palette. Everything feels TOO heavy. too rich. And we've been conditioned to feel like these are unhealthy. Fruit, which is basically crack cocaine for your body, has been coded as ultra healthy, super "lite", "fresh", "clean". Keto stuff feels heavy and un-healthy. A lot of this is just conditioning. By taking on a different palette you start to change your relationship to food

This is why I want to try keto. Sugar is addictive like cocaine is, and I've been using it to numb my stress in a very easy/instant relief way. It makes everything worse of course, but once you're hooked, you kinda lose control. And I wasn't hooked in a "moderate" way. I mean, my little sister is hooked too, but she doesn't obsess with food. And she only eats when she's hungry and she stops eating as soon as she's full - even sweets. She hardly ever binges. I'm not like that. I can't handle sugar at all.

It's hard for me to picture most fresh and organic fruits as anything but super healthy. Plus the effect fructose has on me feels very different than processed sugar. Fructose gives me energy and is easy to digest, while processed sugar just makes me tired and nauseous and moody. But they're both highly addictive to me, and one type of sugar usually leads me to eventually eat the other too. I will probably never really think fruits are unhealthy, but given my addiction to sugar I don't think it works for me. So yeah, I'm aiming for no sugar at all eventually.

 

3 hours ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

And maybe slogging is good

I actually need food to stop being the highlights of my life, so if my diet is slogging and boring, that could definitely help me. At least in the beginning. I just need to forget about food. I don't mean not enjoying it and respecting it while I'm eating; but when I'm not, I want to forget about it completely. Keto seems the best option for that. Also fasting.

Thanks a lot for your answers 🙏

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On 6/9/2019 at 11:40 PM, Kero Tide said:

This thread is pretty awesome. I'm currently water fasting again, so I suppose I should try Keto when I'm done since I'll already be in ketosis and fat adapted and all. The thing I'm finding psychologically hard with keto isn't even the radical change of diet, it's simply getting used to meticulously preparing your meal and being mindful of macros. It's like doing the dishes. It overwhelms me so bad lol.

I counted macros at the beginning, just so that I had an idea of what was what. But after about a week I stopped and don't do it at all anymore. When someone asked after one of our podcasts, I tracked them again for 3 days in order to be able to tell people what they were, and they were pretty close to what I was aiming for when I started. I find it incredibly tiresome, all the tracking and measuring and all that. But it's temporary, so long as you're a creature of habit. We eat the same kinds of things all the time, even if we were free to eat whatever we wanted. So that helps.

In terms of preparation, it's actually much simpler than it appears. I think in the early stages there's a lot of "how do I get a keto version of this?" which makes it complicated, but when you settle into it the plate starts looking the same. Fat here, protein there, vegetable. Done.

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21 hours ago, Kero Tide said:

I'll try to find and eat keto veggies/fruits when I break my fast because my body will be very sensitive and going straight to dairy and meat isn't recommended. 

I hear you on taking it easy as you reintroduce your body to food. I'd recommend bone broth - or even just brothy soup of any kind if it's not easy to find bone broth - and spinach and broccoli are our go-to homemade veggies. As far as keto fruits go, it's avacado. Hahaha, Almost only that.

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2 hours ago, Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu said:

spinach and broccoli are our go-to homemade veggies

Just a note, broccoli has has about 6x the carbs of spinach, so when choosing between them spinach is always better (including for potassium). One cup of raw spinach has about 1 carb (1/50th of your allowance) one cup of broccoli (6 gms (1/10th of your carb allowance). Broccoli is good, but if you pound it you can be pushing your carbs a little bit.

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20 hours ago, Kero Tide said:

Plus the effect fructose has on me feels very different than processed sugar. Fructose gives me energy and is easy to digest, while processed sugar just makes me tired and nauseous and moody.

I'm not saying you are wrong, you know your experiences, but we all are super conditioned. I don't know if you had the same Orange Juice for breakfast thing that Americans my age did, but this was a huge Florida Orange Juice industry campaign, basically take this big glass of healthy sugar to start your day!

This is basically powerful food propaganda:

OJ propaganda.jpg

For me there was a kind of wow, I never thought about where I got the idea that fruit was so healthy from? And who's commercial interest was that in? I'm not a super ideological fighter, (must resist indoctrination!), but now when I walk through supermarkets and see rows of beautiful fruits stacked everywhere I just see small round sugar bombs that have been selectively breed for sweetness (not flavor) and for color, losing probably a huge portion of their "natural" nutritional value they may have had 30 years ago. It's just a bunch of sugar grenades, hahahaha. I'm like: am I in the matrix???

 

As to the differences between sugar, table sugar is 50% fructose, apparently.

There is a fair amount of evidence that fructose is problematic, involving insulin spiking, which messes with all your hormones:

Fructos insulin.PNG

 

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4 hours ago, Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu said:

I hear you on taking it easy as you reintroduce your body to food. I'd recommend bone broth - or even just brothy soup of any kind if it's not easy to find bone broth - and spinach and broccoli are our go-to homemade veggies. As far as keto fruits go, it's avacado. Hahaha, Almost only that.

I was actually thinking of doing some kind of spinach/avocado/olives smoothies for a while haha. Are olives okay? It seems so, according to the few keto websites I googled. I'll try the bone broth too. Thanks for the tip.

1 hour ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

I'm not saying you are wrong, you know your experiences, but we all are super conditioned. I don't know if you had the same Orange Juice for breakfast thing that Americans my age did, but this was a huge Florida Orange Juice industry campaign, basically take this big glass of healthy sugar to start your day!

This is basically powerful food propaganda:

OJ propaganda.jpg

For me there was a kind of wow, I never thought about where I got the idea that fruit was so healthy from? And who's commercial interest was that in? I'm not a super ideological fighter, (must resist indoctrination!), but now when I walk through supermarkets and see rows of beautiful fruits stacked everywhere I just see small round sugar bombs that have been selectively breed for sweetness (not flavor) and for color, losing probably a huge portion of their "natural" nutritional value they may have had 30 years ago. It's just a bunch of sugar grenades, hahahaha. I'm like: am I in the matrix???

 

As to the differences between sugar, table sugar is 50% fructose, apparently.

There is a fair amount of evidence that fructose is problematic, involving insulin spiking, which messes with all your hormones:

Fructos insulin.PNG

 

Yeah I meant organic and fresh fruits - not processed juices like Tropicana brands and such. Even so I know a little how most "fresh" fruits we eat nowadays are nothing like it's used to be, nutritionally speaking. A lot of them are OGM and loaded with pesticides and just as bad as sweets, etc. Most food we actually eat have been transformed so bad. And we eat way too much. Having been conditioned to eat three times a day and only at specific hours, instead of when we actually do feel hungry, just to fit some ridiculous work hours that don't benefit us in the first place. Yes it feels like we're in the Matrix haha. If I can get to a point where I can just eat very, very little and feel great (whatever the food), I guess I'd be closer to Zion than I'd ever been.

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3 minutes ago, Kero Tide said:

not processed juices like Tropicana brands

Yes, but the way that juices work, as a brand, is that they are imagined to be the condensed, concentrated, most powerful "essence" of what fruits already are. Which itself is something of a branded creation. You can't sell the juices of oranges if Oranges themselves aren't already imagined to be amazingly healthy. The fruit juice industry has been pushing the health of fruit for a very long time. Our brains are filled with images of luscious, mouth-watering fruit, since childhood. In fact, my mouth is right now watering. Complete robot me.

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16 minutes ago, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

Yes, but the way that juices work, as a brand, is that they are imagined to be the condensed, concentrated, most powerful "essence" of what fruits already are. Which itself is something of a branded creation. You can't sell the juices of oranges if Oranges themselves aren't already imagined to be amazingly healthy. The fruit juice industry has been pushing the health of fruit for a very long time. Our brains are filled with images of luscious, mouth-watering fruit, since childhood. In fact, my mouth is right now watering. Complete robot me.

I see. It makes sense. My mind just won't let go of fruits being essentially healthy. It's okay though, I don't need to believe they're unhealthy sugar bombs. I just need to stop eating them for a while lol. And see how it goes.

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