[Can I move to thailand and fight professionally as a trans woman fighting men? Should a Farang identify themselves as kathoey or is this a cultural identity?]

7 hours ago, Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu said:

Kathoey is not a Thailand-specific cultural identity, so you can use this word for yourself here without any problem. It's not the most polite word, but it is the most common word and speaking to your trainers and promoters, this is the word everyone will use. It is also how Trans folks here refer to themselves, outside of formal writing. I think your chances would be best for fighting up in the North, in Chiang Mai, as there are so many stadia, fights almost every night, and the levels are along a spectrum. There are a number of Kathoey fighters active right now up in the North, sometimes coming down to fight in Bangkok, but with good recognition and presence in the stadia of Chiang Mai. You could also go specifically to train with Nong Toom at her gym in Bangkok. That will absolutely provide a supportive training environment and Parinya (Nong Toom) will have the kinds of connections you'd need to fight, but the opportunities would likely be less frequent than in Chiang Mai. I also am catching myself as I'm saying this, because even though there are tons of fights in Chiang Mai and they won't be making a big deal about your gender, there is never any guarantee that opponents will be available for anyone all the time; it will depend on size and skill matching.

Thank you, this is an invaluable response and extremely useful. Of course, opportunities are never guaranteed but just knowing where I have the best odds of finding fights is invaluable. Thank you for the response Sylvie.

[Trans Female - Learning to embrace the function and power of my body over the aesthetic through Muay Thai.]

On 6/12/2023 at 5:43 AM, Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu said:

This is probably far afield, but reading your thoughts brought to mind this thread I did on how Thailand's rigors of training, the very shape of its hyper-masculine practice, support a kind of trans- experience for Westerners. Lots of sociology and theory in this thread, but who knows it might connect up with other thoughts:

Thank you kevin this was an excellent read. Adopting cultural norms alongside shaping one's style and muay makes thailand's martial arts scene so tangible and traceable to the living humans who practice and teach it. Goosebumps.

[Trans Female - Learning to embrace the function and power of my body over the aesthetic through Muay Thai.]

On 6/6/2023 at 5:37 PM, Sellen said:

A beautiful thread you have here. I am late to the party but Sylvie pointed me to it today. If I would ever care to analyze what MT does to me past the superficial "it is fun", this is what I would write, maybe not as eloquent though.   But as you made me self-reflect today, I realized how deep MT has rooted itself inside me and how it then manifested on the outside.

I started at 36 and I have been doing MT for 2 years now. I am definitely in a better shape now than ever, both mentally and physically. People from outside can disagree when they see my sometimes bruised body and my obsession with pain and grind but for me that's the moments when I feel like myself. That's when my most genuine smiles happen. It's been the best tool to reintegrate my lost masculine part back in a healthy way and finally feel as a whole, self-reliant and resilient to societal expectations and pressure.  Who would think, right? That the best way to find yourself and your place as a woman could be through such a stereotypically masculine activity.

It is so refreshingly free of norms and so laden with them in some ways. I have fallen in love with my muay and see it as something I have a relationship with, a living expression of who I am, and shaping my muay has allowed me to 'celebrate' the parts of myself its expressing! Thank you for the response!

[Can I move to thailand and fight professionally as a trans woman fighting men? Should a Farang identify themselves as kathoey or is this a cultural identity?]

I love fighting more than anything else. There is not much chance of a career for anyone trans or cis in my local scene, in MMA or Muay Thai. Both scenes are relatively non-existent. I am trying to move somewhere I can pursue this goal, and Angie, Rose, and Nong-thoom are huge inspirations to me. Is this path viable in Thailand as a Farang? I have researched logistics of moving and read a lot of others experiences in addition to Sylvie's own advice but remain unsure about the overall viability of training and fighting traditional stadium Muay Thai as a western trans woman. 

Additionally I have a lot of questions about how to identify myself as trans, as a farang. I want to be as honest and clear as possible with my trainers and potential coaches and would kill for some insight as to how to approach this issue sensitively without appropriating the Kathoey label if it is cultural. Google has not been clear on this topic, eek. 

Thank you!
 

 

[Trans Female - Learning to embrace the function and power of my body over the aesthetic through Muay Thai.]

Thanks for responding and wow, what a beautiful ram muay. I think I really resonate with what you said about allowing yourself to occupy and utilize masculine and feminine energies without it having any bearing on your actual gendered existence. Being able to "go back" into masculine territory with Muay Thai has really let me take ownership over the parts of myself that I was running from and contextualize them into my post-transition persona. 

You and Angie are literally who I think of when I am overwhelmed and pessimistic about fighting. You both made room for me in the sport in your own ways and I am very grateful.

PS, Bev Francis is so dope.

[Trans Female - Learning to embrace the function and power of my body over the aesthetic through Muay Thai.]

I started late, 25 yrs old. I have recently found Sylvie's videos interviewing Angie and while that is a huge inspiration for me as someone now a few months into training, I have found the real hook that kept me coming back to class religiously is the impact of Muay Thai on my relationship to my body. I pass fairly well when I am conforming to western femininity but I actually gravitate towards tom/butch expression (undercut, little makeup, "men's" cloths) despite being MTF. For my whole life, and especially the last few years during transition I have had basically hypervigilance/hyper fixation surrounding my body and how its being perceived/gendered and how I exist in space. Surrendering to the grind/burn of Muay Thai has been one of the biggest non-medical transition tool for reframing my relationship to my body from one centered on the perceptions of others, to one centered around learning how to assert myself in space and exercise balance and autonomy over my body. I have a lifetime of sharpening ahead of me but I have found a great deal of relief and reward in the distance I have come so far. As I become more at home in my body I am able to understand how my natural tendencies match up to the various subdisciplines/systems of Muay Thai and serves as a salient anchor for these parts of myself I want to develop in my regular life, and for getting past traumas. Making this post to share this experience, as after the fact I thought it was very ironic that this thing that is so good for specifically trans mental health (in my opinion) is socially and sometimes legally off limits to us.

How does my experience compare to yours? Do you know any trans fighters that have had similar or different experiences?