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Thank you I will look into them today! Lol just checked.... Thanks teehee

Knew you would come in clutch Kevin. Thank you.

Hello, I have seen the list of recommended gyms that is pinned at the top of this forum but I had some further questions about training in Thailand. I will be able to get about 3 weeks off to come visit in January for my work and I was wondering what would be a good preferably smaller gym I could train/stay at in Bangkok. I am specifying bangkok because of the cheapness of the flights as compared to elsewhere but if there is another city nearby that is relatively easy to get to I would have no issue tacking on another travel day. I was also wondering if anyone had any thoughts on privates vs group classes and since I'm only gonna be there for 3 weeks if solely doing privates would be better or if I should just say fuck it and train twice a day with privates in between. I'm a 24 year old male that sucks at everything but am very interested in getting there to train hard and learn as much as I can. If someone has any other recommendations for specific privates that would also be great. I know Sagat and Chatchai have been recommended but just curious of other thoughts.

Oh my phone autocorrected to goodie sorry I meant hoodies.

Is there any ability to have the Kru fund t shirts as goodies or just shirts? Kinda random but was just wondering.

Yet in the analogy we are assuming we have varying degrees of knowledge of the topics. (German language, German idealism, hegels relationship to other philosophers) And if you did not have these things you wouldn't be able to get off the starting line. Let's go even further if none of you had any prior knowledge but knew where to look you would be looking at Hegel scholars who are individuals who have "special insight". I know it's an analogy and only trying to be slightly annoying. Again I don't think we disagree on the benefits of communal problem solving, and this is how we train with contemporary BJJ. Coaches all the time tell you to talk to x person, study this person's game, visit this school etc. All people who are not "masters" in a context of reverence just people who we can learn from. My initial and current sticking point isn't that you shouldn't get stuck in the mud it's that your teammates should be the giants shoulders your standing on. Which again I also don't think you disagree with but this is the issue with me rambling on forums day and night

Yeah I came off really whiney sorry about that. I think part of the reason is that things get lost in the text and also because I agree with the deeper value of learning something and struggling with something over time. Though it feels like there is moments in which it's incredibly beneficial to have someone whether it's a peer or a teacher give you practical feedback within something. Which again I don't think you really disagree with either lol just hard to bounce ideas around sometimes without getting lost within the medium - forum posts that we are separated by time zones. Thanks for the book post it reminds me of trying to read Hume as a high schooler and having no clue what the fuck anything meant but attempting to learn by brute force.

How much of Hegel could you figure out on your own? Though what we mean by "your own" isn't particularly clear either.

I'm not arguing against learned experience in positions and explicitly stated you can't hack yourself through it. My point is simply that you get all of that from training in positions and you don't need to attempt to reinvent the wheel in every scenario.

Well put. There is a pretty consistent tension within my mind of the purpose of martial arts, and how much something should be "dumbed" down for people who initially would be too afraid or "weak" to do it. I don't want to bully people out of something that may have a great benefit to their life. Yet at the same time I don't believe in sacrificing what makes certain martial arts great for the pursuit of a dollar.

Lol the more you respond the more I am realizing that this way of learning is very similar to how we learn and feed off of each other in BJJ. Thank you for letting me pick you brain on this topic, I'll shut the fuck up now!

There is no guarantee that you as an individual will figure it out, or that the technique or process you develop is a better technique than what people have discovered before you. The positional awareness, relaxation, balance, mental toughness, etc. are not developed in a day and I'm not suggesting you can hack your way through years of experience on a mat. The point is though that individuals waste a ton of time trying to reinvent the wheel, or putting themselves in positions that are not really worth pursuing. I don't think people are naturally good at fighting or problem solving that is related to martial arts. How many peoples first reaction when they get put in the guillotine isn't to handfight? How many people belly down when they are in mount and give up their back? How many people turn into an inside heelhook when first put there which will tear your leg in half? You still need experience within the positions to be comfortable and smooth but there is no major benefit to either training partner in withholding information from you to toughen you up. Especially if the information is something simple like hey when someone attempts to kimura you straighten your arm? When some attempts to footlock you keep your hip free and get your knee below theirs. Now if I tell someone these things obviously you aren't magically great in any of these positions hence my belief in constantly sparring and training but if I can lay the groundwork for someone else I believe I should. Sure if all you are focused on is the process of development then what I'm saying isn't particularly relevant. The reality for most people though is you want to not be getting the shit kicked out of you unnecessarily. You already get toughened up by the fact that you fight/roll/spar everyday so I don't believe in compounding that for what seems to amount to a romanticization of struggling/being an autodidact. The reality is if your goal is to beat a specific technique within a fight then yes that year is "wasted". You are correct in saying that all of the experience you have in a particular position cannot be totally streamlined in a hack but plenty of people have immense experience and time in a position but aren't good there because they have been attempting to figure it out on their own. Plenty of individuals have great emotional and mental resources through their training and are no where near the best within their respective field. Its a strange thing to point out when I'd be willing to bet Sylvie has an "encylopedic" knowledge of the clinch and what you are attempting to do within it. To be the best at anything you need to have the mental, physical, and emotional but people everywhere are tough and not good at what they do.

Yeah the way you just explained that makes a ton of sense. The misrepresentation of what you are receiving vs what is being sold is kind of hilarious. I recently started training at a Muay Thai gym in the midwest but have grown up around MMA/kickboxing etc. so you see or meet plenty of people who "know" Muay Thai but the stark contrast between what they do and what I see you guys post on the patreon is comical. At least the coach at this current gym is well aware of this divide between how the Thais train/develop and how we do and is honest about this split. The analogy of the stew making process sticks out to me because its similar to other art forms. Lets say woodblock prints vs a laser or other computer generated engraving. If you want a super sleek no imperfections image on whatever that's great but I think there is value in a handcrafted images that seem to be human. Tattoos and the difference between them is another very similar position photorealistic artists vs Robert Ryan, Higgs, Jeff Zuck, etc etc. There is a beauty in craftsmanship with tattoos or drawings like that but they seem to lack "soul" the majority of the time and aren't connected to a greater tradition. Your last paragraph clarifies your position the best simply in saying you respect the other endeavors but my goal is preserve the fruits of the Amazon. Its interesting to see the difference between Muay Thai and BJJ in this aspect. Its presumably because the Golden Age was in the past and currently BJJ is probably in its own Golden Age. Everyone currently knows that traditional jiu jitsu is gone but the vast majority of individuals do not give a fuck. It seems to be that way primarily because most of us agree on the fact that the level of contemporary jiu jitsu is incredibly higher than it was 40 years ago, and a shit ton of Brazilians immigrated to the states so we received "authentic" training from Brazil from the start. Now we have our own issues with people claiming to be belts they aren't, teaching BJJ when they are teaching garage jiu jitsu, but most don't ever argue over the specific point of authenticity. The closest you get to this is we don't train with strikes anymore but those who care either do it or simply fight MMA.

My perspective is that you seem to privilege the stewing conception over the correction/mechanization as a method of teaching for reasons I don't really understand. If we are discussing how "real thais" train, learn, fight, etc. then the emphasis on what they do makes sense because you're simply recording the facts. Though when you talk about the mechanization of a technique you call it a "hack" which presumably isn't a term of endearment. It seems like you're saying if someone lays out a specific flow chart of what we do when someone does X or Y you're cheating??? Or that this method of understanding is necessarily shittier than figuring it out on your own with minimal help from others. You bring up clinching as an example - sure you can go to Thailand and learn a couple of neat sweeps and beat people up in your gym but .... I don't really understand the but. Sure you I or any other person may not have some sort of exhaustive understanding developed through 1000s of hours of trial and error but the point is you don't always need to do that. At the highest highest levels in combat sports yes this starts to differentiate people because there will be people who have been competing as a black belt in BJJ for as long as you have been training. Clearly in situations like these that awareness that they have is worth quite a bit of weight but what is the individuals goal in learning? If my goal is to be the best or one of the best competitors or coaches in my weight class, city, country, etc. the stew method isn't obviously better by any stretch. You can't skip past the hours and hours of situational spars and awareness developed my grappling over a lifetime but we can give specific blueprints that speed an individuals development up. The thing I think for me is that 1. Most people have a shelf life physically and competitively 2. Is it obvious that the stew method would be clearly preferred by individuals who are given the option in the beginning? and 3. Which is probably most important is that your health is on the line within all of these contexts. How much burnout, injuries, damage, is accumulated in training in a way that is less than stellar or simply not particularly guided. For an example if we are doing situational sparring for some version of half guard and maybe you know 1 or 2 passes as independent techniques but are having an incredibly hard time implementing them. I think it can be worthwhile for both individuals if the more knowledgeable person explains what they are doing wrong in that technique or engagement. Or better yet lays some ground work principles that benefit the person on top. Lets say separating the persons knee from their elbow, hunting for a high collar grip or crossface, and always fighting to have your body on the "inside". That doesn't replace being in that situation for 100s of hours but the important point to me is that a lot of people including myself have wasted a shit ton of hours when someone could have made in hindsight obvious adjustments to fix small things. Which when I'm training with younger people is exactly what I try to do. Now I'm not arguing for babying individuals and clearly sometimes you need to shut the fuck up and wrestle then ask the question after the round. Though in saying this, most of the people I know who are phenomenal grapplers are constantly looking for what specifically did they do wrong in each exact position. How else do you wrap your brain around a seemingly endless problem? Lol how many different positions are there in sports that relate to the intertwining of human bodies...... at least a metric fuck ton. I wish we could talk over a call or something because we could discuss this with much more fluidity and depth. You and Sylvie both are clearly very intelligent and I enjoy hearing your perspectives and thoughts. I really don't know if we disagree as much as I'm suggesting but I'm kind of stream of consciousness currently and don't have timestamps for anything to respond exactly to.

Much appreciated also I started listening to episode 16 of the podcast right after and I kind of felt stupid because it immediately was responding to my thoughts here.