Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu
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Posts posted by Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu
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Interesting, are you at liberty to elaborate on the details?
It's a very strong story we've heard. There seems to be distinct nationalism behind a lot of Chinese promotions, basically they are there to show the superiority of Chinese fighters, so pretty much everything gets skewed to the Chinese fighter. Sometimes this is the size of the opponent, sometimes its the rules, the reffing, the accommodations. The whole experience ends up feeling like some kind of assault that fighters aren't quite ready for psychologically. Now, there are of course many promotions, and this is a very big generalization, but it also is a kind of theme we have heard across the board. Hell, I even know of a well-known persona who flew out there under the advice of a friend who saw it as a quick money grab, and had such a harsh experience she basically retired from fighting. I also remember the almost all Chinese card that was put on for the Queen's Birthday a year ago, which matched up Chinese fighters against Thai fighters (in Thailand), in a production that was beamed back to China. We watched this Thai girl put against a pretty big and tough Chinese fighter. She was rag-dolled all over the ring with illegal throws of every kind. It was pretty rough to see, and clearly the Thai girl had no idea what she was in for - in Thailand. The general picture that emerges is that these tend to be very pro-Chinese productions where the non-Chinese fighter is often at a disadvantage, sometimes disadvantages they don't expect. We've heard several western female fighters say: "Well, I'm not doing that again." Valentina seems to have that look on her face too.
On the other hand Chinese promotions are really on the rise, there's a big money draw growing there. With the dramatic increase of Chinese tourism in Thailand, the growth of the Chinese economy and middle class, this is just going to expand. Lots of Thais are finding work there, both as fighters and as trainers.
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The Chinese refs do seem to be more active in restricting the clinch. I'm not too surprised many female fighters are having trouble in China, female athletes from China do very well in the Olympics, soccer and other sport and on top of that they have a heritage of martial arts.
No, the trouble in China isn't that the opponents are so good (though this fighter's awesome). It's more about how they are treated there, their experience of fighting, the stay, everything. Valentina looks really pissed, and very confused. We've heard from a lot of westerners who just had very bad Chinese fight experiences. Female western fighters are drawn there because there is very big money being offered, but almost all of them that we've talked to regret it.
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Not sure what the rules are for Kunlun, but Valentina, who may be the best female Muay Thai fighter on the planet right now, is very confused by what seems to be a rule that you can't cross your hands, even briefly in the clinch. The ref seems to explain "no elbows" and "no clinch" before the fight. But fantastic action, fight starts at 5:24, as she tries to adjust on the fly to the rules and a very aggressive opponent.
It's crazy how many female fighters seem to have negative experiences fighting in China.
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Evolve put out a video that demonstrates the fake to reverse elbow (among other combos):
Yeah, that's not quite it. That's a fake knee which has a different spacing and timing. But I'm sure everyone can get the idea. You set up with teeps, and then teep and miss to the side, but land quite deeply to that side of your opponent, and reverse elbow. The key to it all seems to be that the fake allows you to cross the distance really naturally, you kind of "fall" to the side of your opponent. The set up may keep them rigid, the miss may confuse them for a second. A big element of the reverse elbow as Sylvie learned it is getting your lead foot deep enough, to the side (or beyond) your opponent's foot. The teep miss accomplishes this in a great way. Many westerns attempt reverse elbows without any step depth, so they are inaccurate or lose power. Of course this is a once in a great while trick, but I love how sound in principle it is.
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OMG miss the teep and reverse elbow - EVIL. Is there a video of this?
I'll ask Sylvie who taught her this and see if we can get video up. It's pretty cool.
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I knew that clinching would probably be a good strategy going into this fight, so I watched Kenshin's "Drowning the Genius in Clinch" video to get some insight on how to enter the clinch successfully, but I didn't get as much actual clinch practice as I would have liked.
Sylvie has really grown well beyond what she knew in that fight, in the last year or more, and in fact has really started focusing on clinch entry. Maybe she can do a video share of what she is working on. There are lots of things you can do - you can just pick one of course - but I think she's broken through to a new level of awareness on this. I'll see if I can get her to put something together.
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Also, I'm so glad you have suggested I cultivate the teep. I love teeps. I've had a nagging concern that I might become a one trick pony, but as you've pointed out, there's actually a lot of variation to the technique.
Off the top of my head there are not only teep location variations (the thighs, the hip points - to interrupt kicks - low in the abdomen, mid stomach, solarplexis, face), but there are all styles of teeps. You can hit with the ball of the foot, the point of the toes (this is painful), the heel. You can teep short and stiff, or lean back and long. You can jump on the teep, or turn the teep into a side kick a little for power. And then there are tons of combinations off of teeps, including a cool one Sylvie recently learned where, after setting with teeps, you "miss the teep" on purpose and fall into a reverse elbow. The teep is its own world.
It's a great way to attack the gas tank, change levels when fighters are too concerned with hands. Sylvie in fact just has added the teep to her comfort zone and it is making a huge difference in the last few fights.
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And thank you for reminding me of the 'personal' nature of Muay Thai. I really feel this is what sets it apart from other martial arts that are not as 'fighting' oriented. In things like Karate or Kung Fu where there's lots of forms/katas, there's generally a 'right' way to do things. But the beauty of Muay Thai is that whatever works in the ring can be considered 'right'. And what works for your trainer might not work for you. I sometimes lose sight of this because I respect my trainer a lot, and I want to please him. But he's a 185lb male, and I'm a 140lb female, and that makes a difference; both in phenotype and the field of competition we face.
Pretty cool you see this clearly. Not everyone does because Muay Thai in the west can come filtered through very narrow technical pathways, and it is natural to want to emulate your trainer. But in Thailand this is really a big truth. Sylvie's first trainer in Chiang Mai, a westerner Andy Thomson who has been training Thais for 20 years, told her "There is not 1 Muay Thai, there are 1,000s. Each person has their own Muay Thai." And Den, her Thai trainer some years later told Sylvie "Everyone learns the same Muay Thai, up to you to put it together". At Sylvie's current gym, Petchrungruang, the trainer has a very distinct style that he likes, but he is so open minded no Thai fighter comes out of the gym looking like any other. It's kind of amazing. His own son fights very unlike how he would like. Big clinch fighters, or very artful defensive fighters all come out of the gym. You can feel that the gym just feels that everyone has their Nature, and this nature just comes through. Once you figure out a kid's nature you try to find the techniques that compliment and express it.
I know I'm just saying what you have said above, but this is a really exciting part of Muay Thai. And it is exactly as you say, it's because it's a fighting art, proven and evolving in 1,000s and 1,000s of fights all over the country every year.
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Ah I see. I think we all have some styles we find boring, nothin to feel bad about! My eyes will sometimes glaze over watching Petchboonchu shut guys down lol
I was thinking the same thing, in reverse. I can watch good clinch all day long. Hop in, hop out striking, unless at a really elite level, is boring. I will say though, I would like to see the Meksen KO fight of Iman Barlow. Iman's such a nice pressure fighter, that must of been something.
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She is usually more exciting
No, I mean I've never seen her in a fight that I've enjoyed. She's very athletic, very skilled. But not interesting to me. I feel guilty to admit it. Just me.
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I only saw the Sittichai fight and am VERY curious about Glory rules and scoring afterwards. I look forward to seeing him take on Yodsanklai in December for Kunlun (I keep seeing that it's kickboxing, but is it? Or full rules muay thai?).
This is really a great breakdown of the rules of Glory and the Sittichai fight.
I don't follow Kunlun, so I have no idea really. Maybe someone here does.
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I did have some worries about my conditioning going in. I'm really a "slow and steady" kind of gal, but fights seem to require much more in the way of explosiveness. I'll definitely be doing more p
I know you are talking about energy and fitness levels here, but I see it in your fight style too. One of the more interesting questions facing a fighter in development is: how much to I go with what I feel is my "nature" and how much to I work very hard to change it? This can be really complicated when trainers have a vision with how you "should" fight based on either what has been successful for them, or on your body type (Sylvie had long struggles with this). Some things are worth changing through hard work, some things that really are you should be embraced, because ultimately fighting is an expression of you. It's the fighter's path to figure out which is which.
In watching the fight I really could see your "slow and steady" nature, though it wasn't that slow at all, you had a nice pace. It was more that you had a uniformity to your striking, in terms of tempo and power. Something that might be very interesting for you is to really work on your teep with your length. Teep to the high torso, the low torso, the thighs. If you got good lean back on this it would make you very hard to deal with, and it would compliment your nice round kicks. But mostly why I recommend it is because a good stiff teep could compliment your "slow but steady" comfort level. It works like a great jab in boxing. It would allow your medium tempo, strike, strike, strike comfort, but because it is read as a defensive strike, it would make your more aggressive round kicks and combinations feel more explosive, in contrast.
Anyone can have suggestions of course, but it is something I thought about during your rounds. Throwing it out there. :)
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Great first performance Yuki, first fights can be a huge blur and your wasn't. You were very present in this fight. Your head was still, you stayed so nicely engaged in the eyes. Pretty awesome.
The small thing that really stuck out to me, technically, was in the first round in the Thai plumb. This was were you could have finished the fight. But your hands were not locked, and there was not enough draw back or turn to make space for yourself, pulling her forward. If you clinch with bare hands in practice the lock on the Thai plumb can sometimes be a problem with gloves on. At the earlier stages of development it is best is to try to cross palm to palm or at the wrist, and dig the elbows in for leverage. Look at the palm to palm gripped showed here:
The above is not exactly the Thai Plumb, and it's part of a system involving the head and a squeeze, one that Sylvie uses a lot, but you can see how the palms/wrists lock - they can't slip. You can move from palm to wrist if you need. If you try to lock how you did in this fight it can be hard to hold the grip in gloves. Going wrist to wrist or open palm to open palm is more stable. Cupping back of the hand, which feels natural in bare hands, is more difficult - advanced Thais can plumb this way with the cupped hand because they are not so much using the hands to control the head and neck, as the pinch of the arms, and their body frame. At your height, at this level of fighting, such a good lock would be a definite fight finisher.
(oh, and p.s. I jumped in and edited your fight video in. On the forum if you just put the normal YouTube url in the post, the video automatically is embedded).
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Thanks for posting K! Hopefully someone uploads her fight with Meidie.
I feel terrible saying it, because she is probably one of the best female kickboxers in the world, but I find her fighting style incredibly boring to look at. I couldn't even finish watching the fight. I guess I'm just not a visual fan of savate.
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Nice post!
I still can't get over the Sittichai loss. Glory loses Spike TV, and then suffers that debacle. It is sinking itself. It was a very promising show.
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I also heard recently that if you can't recall a time when you didn't train for more then 2 or 3 days in a row during the last year, overtraining is probably your silent companion.
This sounds over-broad. This is a problem with Overtaining talk, it becomes incredibly vague and yet prescriptive.
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At my last fight my punches were so weak, they didn't hurt my opponent. I tried my favourite low kicks, but.. no power.
Do you run as a significant part of your training? There are three basic things that Thais use to develop power, or "charge the battery". Regular running, padwork and extended clinch sessions.
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I thought it was pretty cool to see the breakdown that they offer, and the reasoning behind their motivations. We don't get to hear these voices from gyms very often. Lynne seemed to be responding to Siam Scholar's pretty cynical blog posts about the Muay Thai gyms and sponsorships.
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" I cannot tell you how many times my trainer has put more pressure and pain on me when I'm in a difficult place and it feels exactly as comforting as a hug or shoulder cry... complete with about as much snot.
You say the most amazing things. I can say that as your husband, because they still strike me from afar, like an arrow.
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Bizarrely, she seems to have fought THIS fight, in Bangkok, for a European title earlier in the year. Comes to Thailand and does not fight a top Thai (as well).
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Good stuff. Is this K-1 style rules? Would love to see Meksen fight full rules versus a Thai like Chommanee (if she could get down to 54 kg) or someone like Farida Okiko.
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I think one of the more interesting aspects of Sylvie's early videos with Master K was that these videos did not just have a "perfect technique" examples in the "teacher", but they also showed a student struggling with and being corrected in the techniques. There was a dimension of learning which sometimes helps a viewer digest and grow towards a perfect example.
Maybe one of the hardest things from learning from a video example is finding the bridge towards the technique.
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Visas are pretty much a hassle to deal with, and since the military take over they have gotten more strict in many ways, but it seems that the serious drop in tourism - not only because of change in country image, but also things like Russian currency collapse - has initiated a more friendly approach. A new 6 month multiple entry visa, with 60 day border runs, starting in November.
"The visa, costing 5,000 baht (US$139), will be available from November 13 this year. “It will grant travelers multiple entries during a 6-month period, for up to 60 days per entry. All foreign nationals are eligible to apply for METV,” the statement said.
The new visa will allow visitors to enter and leave the country as often as they want over the six-month period. It also means tourists can effectively stay in Thailand for six months with the visa, though they will have to leave the country every 60 days to keep the visa valid. In/out ‘border hops’ are a fact of life for many people residing in Thailand, even those with valid, long-term visas."
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Thanonchai - Punching Through the Pinning Kick
in Open Topics - men and women - General Muay Thai Discussion and News
Posted
The above is a pretty awesome recent fight between Thanonchai, famous for his never-say-die attitude, and Phet-U-Tong. What's pretty interesting to me about this fight, and Sylvie and I talked about this when watching it, is how Thanonchai responds to the common righty-lefty tactic Phet-U-Tong uses here. You see it from Yodsanklai (lefty), and Sittichai (lefty) used it against Roosmalen in his recent Glory fight - but it's available to righties too, when facing strong left hand punchers. Basically, lots of rear-leg high kicks pinning and punishing the power hand. Phet-U-Tong a few rounds in really starts trying to pin Thanonchai's power left cross, and Thanonchai just tries punching through it. The stubbornness of Thanonchai makes the fight really tense.
The eventual result, once Phet-U-Tong starts to tire is dramatic.