Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu
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Posts posted by Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu
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2-24
Well, this diary writing process just isn't working out how I hoped it would, so I'm just going to have to use the thread haphazardly, to note and semi-explore thoughts that come to me. And the topic today unfortunately follows upon some giant female masculinity images, posted above, so it might be misconstrued (nothing against those images, but they are not the direction of where I am heading).
I've wanted to write about what might be called Sylvie's trans-gender project, but in order to appreciate my vector in this it may be worth people reading my essay written 10 years ago:
Wasps, Orchids, Beetles and Crickets: A Menagerie of Change in Transgender Identification
It contains the architecture of my thought: how mapping across genus can effect transformative becoming, and a clue to how I see Sylvie's project. I'm going to take the short cut here, and not re-trace most of the concepts I'm working with. I'm using this space somewhat selfishly, as a note-taking reservoir, posting semi-publicly (as few know about this corner of the internet), in case these thoughts will be of interest to others.
The most important concept here is one of the diagnostic analogy used by Deleuze and Guatarri, that of the Workhorse and the Ox. Here are some secondary texts that seek to illuminate this diagnostic, along with the concept of the Body Without Organs:
and:
and then on the Body Without Organs (BwO):
This is what is incomparable in what Sylvie is doing and has done so far. By undergoing training regimes very close to, and many times surpassing in intensification, those used to inculcate young males as fighters, and submitting to fighting regimes that really surpass in frequency almost any Thai male examples (165+ fights in 5 years), she has performed and IS performing a mapping that is incredibly in-tense, outlining - one might say - on (her/the) Body Without Organs a cartographic transformation, across gender, across culture, across age, much like Deleuze and Guattari might prioritize the "becoming-woman" of desiring streams ("...becoming-woman or the molecular woman is the girl herself"), inversely the mapping is the "becoming-warrior", the molecular man as boy, submitting oneself to the outrageous process of masculinization as fighter to map a frequency/fate onto the body, the electrify it, to create the masculine egg surface ultimately without molarity, producing only the fight...the apparition in the ring, where fear and desire clash creating a shore, a sketched out line of becoming. This is where the Ox and the Workhorse come into play. No matter her origins, her scale of affluence (by culture) or deprivation (by gender norm), in submitting to this project, this kind of becoming-horse, what matters is not comparisons. It is not about "good" and "bad" copies of the original. This is about surpassing, or really under-passing copies and approximations: (ie, not about "fighting well", or "using good technique" or "fighting like a Thai", blah, blah, blah, all those goals). Very possibly no fighter in history has attempted this kind of catalyzation, to this degree. Ironically enough, this IS really the story of Kickboxer (the vapid JCVD male fantasy), but taken to nth and serious degree, its perverse literalization and de-mythologized potential. It is where the Ox and the Workhorse have the most in common, despite sedimented, (obvious) molar (organized) dissimilarities, genealogies. Ultimately this is a project of ritual and rite, and maybe is only half-way done at this point, knowing that it can never be "done", throwing oneself "up" and "out", hinging techniques like trapezes, along a line of fear, consolidated by commitment.
No doubt this is just meandering jargon to some - but this is my sketchbook.
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Did not know this existed. It does seem that it is Katya's channel, more than Sandra's. Sandra came and trained with Sylvie for a few days before fighting in the IFMAs, and becoming the Swedish champion.
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Okay, thanks.
About sangtiennoi gym... now does it change place? And does it still a good gym?
Sangtiennoi's gym look pretty awesome to us. Traditional, western friendly, connected, a legendary fighter.
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This is Sylvie's list of gym recommendations thread, where you can ask follow up questions:
http://8limbs.us/muay-thai-forum/topic/793-my-list-of-muay-thai-gyms-i-recommend-in-thailand/
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Hi guys,
-I wanted to know how is the lookboonmee gym for an athlete of medium level?the trainers follow you and try to make you grow or they use you only for money...
-How is the accomodation and the promoters for some fights?
Thanks :)
P.S. sorry for my bad english
This is not a gym for someone who is not familiar with or connected in Isaan, I would say. It's run by a wonderful family, and represents and trains diverse fighters in the Buriram area, but no English or western language is spoken. We did not see training sessions there, but it appeared quite informal. This is more a gym for someone looking for complete adventure and immersion, I think, not a gym to go to if expecting to fight or be trained in a rigorous way.
If you are going to be in Isaan I'd recommend Kem Muaythai Gym.
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This sometimes seems to come down to gym choice. While it's much easier to get fights regularly in Thailand than it is back home, and often the case that fights are thrown together with very little notice, I've spoken to quite a few people who've come here, put the work in and been disappointed because they weren't able to get a fight for one reason or another. Lanna is a good shout from Kevin, and Chiang Mai in general seems to be the perfect place for women to get fights because of the frequency of events and the amount and caliber of available opponents. Sylvie wrote a post recently about why Chiang Mai has the best female fighting scene in the world, which you can read here.
I think a lot of this is just how connected the gym is to regular female fighting. A gym that is either very focused on its Thai stadium fighters, or on pushing westerners through its training (making $$$ that way), may not be connected enough with the kinds of opponents that might be good for you. Sylvie herself isn't really booked for fights by her own gym, Petchrungruang, because they just are not "about" female fighting. I can't speak for Phuket, but Chiang Mai is so full of fights, and has so many regularly fighting Thai females, most of the gyms there can book a pretty good fight in a moment's notice. But...with a two week window I would say that you want to communicate this all up front, as soon as you get there. I'm here to fight, I want to fight. I'm not sure that a gym like Santai or even Hongthong would book you this quickly (it really depends on how fight ready you are), but if you show you are game, focused and serious about it, I DO think Lanna would book you. We regularly heard that serious students could be made ready to fight in 1 or 2 weeks, with the appropriate match up. Chiang Mai is just unique in this way, and Lanna unique too.
But yes, we've heard many stories about women thinking they were going to get a fight at the end of their training at various gyms, and it just doesn't happen.
In each of Sylvie's trips to Thailand she fought about 2 weeks in, after arrival, I think. But she really pushed for that.
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Thank you so much. I have Googled them now and also found an informative blog post Sylvie wrote in December.
If you decide to go there Sylvie can help communicate your desire to fight to Daeng, the head trainer, perhaps in advance. Just message her on Facebook
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Hi everyone,
I have been training for 2 years, and this past year particularly hard. I want to travel to Thailand to train and fight, but particularly to have my first fight experience. The prep will be done at home, because I cannot go away for more than 2 weeks. If I arrive in Thailand in good condition, and the trainers there think I can get in the ring, how long does it take to get a fight/opponent? Many thanks in advance for advice and pointers.
If you go to Lanna Muay Thai in Chiang Mai I think there should not be a problem setting up such a fight. They are very fight friendly, and there are lots of opponents in Chiang Mai.
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There is also the movie 'Beautiful Boxer' life story of Parinya Charoenphol, a famous trans woman, Muay Thai fighter, actress and model. She was portrayed by male kickboxer Asanee Suwan.
That was a very good movie, one of the first and most inspiring. Ironically enough, we didn't realize that the gym portrayed in that movie was Lanna Muay Thai, Sylvie's gym for a long time. We only really realized it over time. Nong Toom even cornered for Sylvie in one of her first big promotion fights:
I love this photo. Nong Toom has a very strange sadness about her, or at least she did when in this promotion (she fought too). It is captured in this moment.
Interestingly enough, probably Sylvie's best friend at the gym is Angie, a trans-fighter who idolizes Nong Toom. Sylvie is almost a kind of living connection between the two.
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Just saw Muay Thai Chaya yesterday.
Although it's more Muay Boran and i found that the style of the fights and fighters are a bit odd, I think it was pretty good and also included traditional and modern setting for the sport. Have you seen it?
Yeah, we watched that a long time ago. The star of the film was training at Kru Lek's Muay Chaiya gym in Bangkok when we visited there. I can't say the movie made much of an impression on me though.
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This was just a spectacular fight that had Sylvie and me yelling at the screen. WMC 57 kg belt between Phetdapee (one of Sylvie's favorite fighters) and Elena Mischuk - Jan 28, 2017
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Ticha vs Lisa, I think this is a WMC title fight at 51kg:
Lisa almost took that fight. Ticha wanted nothing to do with that right hand, and was starting to fade. But then in classic Thai female style she waited for the optimum moment and performed dominance brilliantly (that head jerk in the clinch was a thing of beauty in terms of dramatic impact and timing).
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There are not really that many Muay Thai movies, and even fewer good ones! Even movies that purport to include Muay Thai, like a fighter with that style, often don't fight in that style. We recently watched this all-female Fight Club, Kung Fu mash had a "Muay Thai" representative, but almost no Muay Thai (this was the trailer, the "Muay Thai" fighter not depicted):
There seems to be basically only ONE truly outstanding Muay Thai movie, that being Ong Bak (it captured an ideology of Muay Thai), even the sequels didn't do as much. Ong Bak just had an essentialism about Muay Thai history, its rural connections, a critique of Bangkok society that was profoundly simple. Nothing like it.
The director of Ong Bak's Chocolate hardly included Muay Thai moves in his well-received Chocolate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrVvRkDxBaM
It's kind of amazing that there has been no new Muay Thai great action flick, as almost all of Hollywood has appropriated Muay Thai for its heroes and villains. You can hardly watch a Hollywood fight scene and not see a Muay Thai teep, or reverse elbow.
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A bit of an old post, but I was wondering if malaria was an issue in Chiang Mai. Does anyone use anti-malaria pills such as malarone in this area? On the internet, it seems that most people says you're fine with repellent, long sleeves, mosquito net at night, etc. What do you think?
To put you in context, I was looking to train in Chiang Mai for maybe a month and I don't want to take malarone for 1 whole month for nothing. Don't want ot take useless risks either. Here in Montreal, travel clinics seem to push malarone as soon as there's more than 25 trees in a whole contry.
Thanks!
I don't know anyone who was taking anti-malaria in Chiang Mai, and we lived there for 2 years. Not going to say nobody was, but it did not seem to be a thing.
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Although I do know old western MT fighters who get headaches etc which is not a good sign. In Thailand I have met lots of old fighters, many are alcoholics but never met anyone with any signs of brain injury, anyone know why this is?
I was just asking Sylvie how many Thais we've met that seemed a little punch drunk. Only about 3, and we've been exposed to a lot of ex-fighters. One was actually primarily a boxer (lower level WBC title), one a middling long term Thai fighter, and one a big name former big time Thai boxer (but who had fought in the west as well, and also in other martial art tournaments). That's not a lot ex-Thai fighters.
There are two big reasons I can think of. 5 Round fights are much shorter than most boxing matches, and because there are so many weapons and the nature of Thai aesthetics, the head is not targeted in the same way. Almost all strikes are to the head in boxing. Body shots are mostly designed to get to the head. But in Muay Thai there are lots of ways to score other than hitting the head. And even most elbow strikes are meant to cut rather than bludgeon.
Another factor is training. From what I've read concussion syndrome is more closely related to the repeated smaller blows that occur in training, and not so much in single big shots in a fight. Boxing training (often with head gear which does not really protect against concussive force) often involves sitting in the pocket and taking lots of deflected blows (blocked or partially slipped). Thais don't really train like this. They do spar hard at times, but it isn't lots and lots of head-hunting sparring.
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Hello again and thanks for your replies ! The main reason I haven't gone to a gym is the absence of a Muay Thai gym in the small town I'm currently living. In two months time I'm gonna return to my home town and there are some Muay Thai gyms there , however I cannot stay inactive at martial arts until that point so I try to improve at basics and search for some proper solo training before the time I get back home and join a gym .
Yeah, this was a very difficult thing for Sylvie. We lived about an hour away from any Muay Thai training at all, and we didn't have much money so even the drives were expensive. We did it, but there was always the sense that we were stuck. Sylvie bought a heavy bag and a wave master and shadowed, but it wasn't ideal. This is probably the real reason why Sylvie started putting up all her training with Master K. There must be so many people in the world who just can't reach great training. This frustration grew - I wrote about the entire process of trying to overcome it here. And finally just lead to coming to Thailand for 6 weeks. And then a commitment to moving here for at least a year. When you are stuck without training it becomes a passion to get it.
That's why Sylvie shares so much stuff. She's been there, in a small town, stuck without training or training partners.
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This is a nice hip stretch Sylvie has used, perhaps you could do it with a table or such:
If you are drawn to Muay Thai because of its practicality, getting in with a gym that has a healthy approach to sparring may be one of the most important things you do.
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Just throwing this out there: an interesting thing would be to build a criteria list for judging/recommending gyms, maybe something like:
Active Young Thai Fighters - young, developing Thai fighters are a sign that the gym is a living Thai-focused gym that does not only prioritize western tourist, commercial interests
Active of Top Stadia Thai Fighters - some people find this to be important. It's great to have high level examples to look at and imitate.
Convenience of Location - how hard is it to get to?
Surrounding Location - what is the surrounding location like? Is it hospitable? Enjoyable to live around?
Gym Atmosphere - what does the gym feel like, it's tone?
Food - If food is served (or local food options) what is it like?
Fight Opportunities - how easily can you get fights, and what kinds of fights? And how invested is the gym in finding you fights, and why?
Female Safety and Respect - is there is history of respecting female fighters and students? are there reports of unwanted advances? are females given top training and enough fight opportunities?
Ownership - Management - sometimes management/ownership can be a big positive for a gym. It speaks to the gym's motivations. It can also help smooth difficulties.
Language - How much Thai do you need to know? Is English spoken? Are there other western language connections? (Some gyms have specific ties to other countries...Sweden, Italy, etc)
Trainer Stability/Turnover - this can go two ways. Sometimes trainers never turnover, and become really entrenched in negatives or lack of caring. too much turnover can suggest unstable management.
Quality of Equipment/Facility - some people find new equipment important.
Cleanliness - gym cleanliness can reflect the quality of care invested by owners/management. Some people also find this to be very important.
Clinch Training - does the gym provide substantial clinch training, practice?
Pad Work Training - what is padwork like? Is it consistent? Between different trainers?
Technical Instruction - is there much technical instruction or correction? some people really value and look for this.
Privates - Are privates offered worth the cost? And do you have to pay for privates in order to get good instruction/training?
Training Partners - Are there training partners for your size? Are they Thai?
Affordability - How does the gym compare in price to others of its kind and location, short term, long term.
Long Term Stay Opportunities - If you want to stay longer term, are there benefits? Discounts, sponsorship?
Living Quarters/Options - Is there onsite lodging, if so what is it like? What are nearby apartment options like, cost and quality?
Farang Gym Culture - Is there a long term western gym culture? If so, what is it like?
Off-Time Entertainment Options - What are the things to do on off-days?
Maybe add any aspects you find important if I missed any?
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"Fighting fuck toys are hyper-sexualized female protagonists who are able to “kick ass” (and kill) with the best of them. The FFT appears empowered, but her very existence serves the pleasure of the heterosexual male viewer. In short, the FFT takes female agency, weds it to normalized male violence, and appropriates it for the male gaze."
I believe we watched that doc too. I do think that this re-sexualization of female agency is an essential western response to the real developments in real power for women: legal, financial, political, commercial, etc. This new potency which is unsettling the legacy ruling class is recaptured and embodied in the FFT trope. She is everywhere. Comic books, MMA, the proliferation of the Dominatrix (in a variety of aesthetic forms). All of this to come to grips with...and get a grip on female ascendance. This does feel like a natural (problematic word, I know) response to this shift, a re-integration, subsuming the new. It makes it very difficult to take perspective on. It is both liberty and not-liberty.
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12-31
Good article on the Rousey disappearance. To me this was just a terribly sad event. Long ago did Ronda Rousey lose me as a fan - and I was a fan - it probably was when she viciously attacked Cris Cyborg's femininity that I just felt that she had lost her way as a person. She was no longer the Door-Opener. She was the Door Guardian. But to see her lose like this just rocked me. Not for her, but for female fighting in general. Clearly this was a person who trained damn hard for this fight. Her rocked-out body was put on display, as a kind proof of work, but as she wobbled under what really were endless, and pretty basic 1-2, 2-1 combinations and her aura of not only possible invincibility - which was already gone - but her impression as an actually highly skilled fighter just melted away, strike after strike, what was exposed was not the fraud of Ronda, but really just how far female fighting has to go. There was a HUGE hole in front of Ronda's left side and Nunes drove a bus through it. Ronda had no belief in her front side, and never had. She was a Roman solider without a shield, but nobody before really had exposed it, not like this. This is nearly a literal example of The Emperor's Clothes, where "clothes" are the techniques you wear into battle. This whole time she had been fighting like this and nobody really saw, not like this.
I'm sure the hyperbole is going to be lavished on Nunes, who knows, she may be vaulted into the ether like her sister Joanna Champion, who is hailed as The Best Striker in the UFC, by some, for her rather elementary but relentless 1-2s. People will want to elevate her because it would help explain Rousey's loss. They did the same with Holm. No, Nunes shows amazing energy and heart, is skilled in many ways, but is not an elite striker in the general sense of what boxers can do. What she did to Rousey was basically to drive that bus straight through that hole. Female fighting is still in its Rock-Paper-Sissors stage, where if you can do one thing pretty well you can beat another person who does another thing pretty well, and you can look really good doing it.
But what is really sad to me is that Rousey clearly trained hard. She must have. It's in her character as much as we can know. But she trained around the huge hole right in front of her on her left side, failing to even address it in a significant way under pressure. For her that is tragic, because this fight will make her look like a fraud. It will diminish so much of what she accomplished, and really the accomplishments of those who lost to her as well. She was made to look UN-skilled. I can't imagine what this fight will do to her own enjoyment of her own career for the rest of her life, especially under the withering and unsavory hatred of MMA fans, many of whom will never let her live down that she sat on the throne for so long...and then looked like this. All because of training. What we saw out there was simply her training and nothing more. It didn't have to be this way, that is what is sad to me.
More of my thoughts on the state of female fighting, and the "Natural" Inferiority of Women
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All I want is to fight a couple more times at "beginner" level to get comfortable in the ring. I dont wanna fight some strong experieced girl with a huge sidebet knowing the odds are against me so soon. Moments ago i was pestering my trainer about a fight next week, he said it have been called off. I am simply messed up. He says the only way now is to fight anybody willing to fight me, and if i win, great. If i lose, great too, people will not overestimate me so much. Go ahead and risk my head being knocked off, or no? Going to train in other province is not really an option for me, i am too broke to move. And i love it here, just hate the situation im in right now.
We've had limited experience fighting in Isaan, maybe Sylvie's had 15 fights? The experience though is that things can be very chaotic/unpredictable, and you really are in the hands whoever is representing you in the community. If whoever that is doesn't want to take you to a match up for a smaller side bet, for whatever reason, you really have no options. You basically have to fight the fights lined up, or you don't fight. Sylvie's had at times some undependable people representing her, and had been given very dubious opponents, or had big name opponents not show up at all. And she's had some great people representing her and had fantastic, challenging opponents. But this is a world without much control from the fighter's end, one that lines up with local interests. At least that is my experience of it.
Just as a thought though, if you do find yourself fighting a girl with 80 fights the way to play it would be to fight defensively, teep, retreat, etc. Generally...and this is very general...if you don't press the action the action will be subdued. And then if you feel comfortable late, go for the win. If you don't, just play it off. And if she comes hard, grab for the clinch.
But from what I'm hearing from you, if I'm hearing correctly...its your boyfriend/trainer who is trying to put you up against more advanced girls, and he is the one who is putting down the sidebet. Is that right?
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Found this while looking for gyms, only has girls training there.
Has some padwork and clinching, but mostly interview with the owner.
That, from 4 years ago, is Gor. Twin Gym in Lampang. We had never seen it, but the girl in blue Cherry Gor. Twin Gym was a top, top Thai fighter for a while. She even flew to Japan as a young teen to fight Erika Kamimura. Sylvie has fought her a few times, a couple of years ago, giving up some weight. It seemed that she had retired or just stopped fighting, but then we saw that Cherry won a 48kg Gold in a Thailand tournament this month.
Very cool to see.
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I had my first fight during Songkran 2016. I fought a girl with 15 fights, and I won by KO. Fought my 2nd fight outside Isaan, against a girl with estimated 25 fights, lost by decision. Just a few days ago I won my 3rd fight in Isaan by KO, against a girl with maybe 8 fights and also taller and bigger than me. But i was extremely sick in the week leading up to the fight, being hospitalised for a few days. My trainer's parents accidentally let those words out after my fight to the surrounding gamblers. Today I went to those fight match ups. Nobody around my perceived level wants to fight me. My trainer says that nobody with less than 40 fights are willing to fight me. I'm worried. I ain't good enough to fight girls with so much experience.
It is one thing if I already had 20plus fights, and someone with 60 fights wants to fight me. But i have had 3 fights, and now the best in Sisaket wants to fight me. She have an estimated 80 fights already. Nobody listens to me when i say i am not ready. They insist that i fight like someone with 20 fights already. I don't. I am contemplating throwing my next fight, so everybody will stop overestimating me. But that had be disrespecting my trainer and myself. Hopefully someone can help me out, i may sound like i am talking big, but i swear i ain't. I can tell you guys more in details what happened if needed, even show you guys my fight videos.
What gym/town are you fighting out? Are you aware of the role gambling is playing in your fight match-ups? Isaan match-ups are almost always driven by the side bet. If this is the case it would be a pretty bad idea to throw your fight.
Also, are you fighting opponent's your size?
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I'm still not sure what kind of figure the UN should go with, assuming they don't just sweep this controversy under the rug and forego choosing a replacement.
I suspect that this was more a cross-marketing campaign from the studios and DC, more than a need from the UN, though one article pointed out that they used Angry Birds for a one-day campaign...maybe they are actively pursuing mass media counterparts for their awareness campaigns.
A reasonable character might be Korra of the Last Avatar series. Not only is she more realistically dressed, she blends ethnicities, though probably is not without critics.
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A writer's journal - Muay Thai, My Wife and Thailand
in Open Topics - men and women - General Muay Thai Discussion and News
Posted
:) :) :) No worries about the size at all. It was only to remark that the trans-gender I am speaking of stands somewhat in contrast with the large, masculinization of the female body images above it. It's a very loaded term these days, and I'm using it here uniquely...or at least with a kind of literalization.