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I recently was thinking a lot about this when I switched sparring partners to someone who is much larger and more experienced with me and got my bell rung a couple times. So naturally I took a look through Slyvie's youtube among others and found this discussion to be useful. I think the thing that concerns me more than getting large blows is the repetitive "minor" blows you really rack up in sparring. Ive been experimenting with trying to keep a more playful attitude during sparring and communicating when a blow may be to hard, etc. This is difficult when you also want to be tough, but I like to think about this as strengthening my communication and self worth muscles. Also discussed in that clip is research on heavy gloves affecting head injury occurrence. I did find this anecdotal report of knock outs by punching increasing 10-fold after MMA required gloves. This is obviously for alot of reasons (fighters wanting to prevent hand injury, etc), but the point of getting hit with an added 16oz's of weight on the chin really makes sense to me. These are good things to think about. You can mitigate risks like you would riding a motor bike or driving a car, but in the end combat sports will be always be a risk that you have to weigh the benefits of.

Good morning, I have started a journey of self healing through study of the origins of Muay Thai... Okay. I've started this journey at least three times now. Seriously; this time is different. This time is different because of the wholesome content available to us learners via the Library and YouTube posts. A special thanks to @Kevin von Duuglas-Ittu for all his hard work behind the camera (And editing software? Or is that all Sylvie?) I've spent hours behind glass myself and respect the challenge of capturing real life. A mentor has told me many times that an injury of the body impacts the mind. An injury of the mind impacts the body. I have scars in both places from years of mistreatment of self and neglect of self. Short take-away from the lesson was that where we choose to address the recovery from the injury is up to us. Since the mind and body are linked; we are in control of where we begin treatment. Getting out of whatever pattern is causing the injury and the subsequent guarding reactions our body is the first step toward healing. Dealers choice; treat mind or body first. I sort of view it like hopping on a merry-go-round and then going for a 10 mile run around it while its spinning. Stepping off the ride is... stepping off. Short summary: I'm currently a devops engineer. Formerly a research engineer for autonomous vehicle systems, and before that, an IT guy and engineering student. Life brought me home from the adventures to have a family. I'm a well trained, but casual low brass player (mostly tuba now.) I ran 5-10 miles a day for half a decade. Over night that was stripped from me. On that path, I discovered a few things which led me here; to post on this site. 1. It's hard to work out at sea. There was a punching bag in the forward hold next to my cabin. I had a stop watch. After 8 weeks of playing around, completely unaware of what I was doing other than some basics I'd been taught as a kid about how to shift weight; I was still hooked. I used some of my sea pay to buy a bag and some gloves 2. I learned that trying to lift-push-rock a 3500 lb station wagon with one foot on the ground and the other on the clutch to skip the starter past a broken tooth on the flywheel is stupid past the age of 30. One sneeze and 2 days later; I was in the ER. 3. Three years of struggle later, we camped on a sheet of 5" ice. My crampons went to my wife. I fell on the ice a bunch of times. (8-10; I lost count. ) Just felt wrong afterwards, stopped running. Almost stopped working out. On the way back to active, pushed things too far. Ended up in the same boat of not being able to walk for a few days. I had no time for myself and never addressed it. Almost 5 months later: 4. First Maine snowstorm of the year. I went out to shovel. First full handle and I'm limping back in. 2 weeks later, taking X-ray's. Insurance denies MRI, so I do PT for 6 weeks. At the end of PT, I'm way worse. Have an MRI confirming ruptured L5-S1 lumbrascarpal joint. Get an epidural. Yay. It helps. They recommend surgery. 5. Acupuncture and PT instead with some good people. I'm just good 2 months later. Back to walking and running. Still don't take time for myself so I know I'm going to ... During this time, I rediscovered the "Thai Low Kick". Had to perform surgery on my cheap bag as I'd blown out some of the sand bags. The concepts of forward-facing stance, high guard, and mental focus appealed to me. I just didn't take the time. 6. 2019 first snow storm; I shovel. I end up on the ground. GRRR. 7. I'm pretty much at rock bottom now. I'm looking at local gyms; and no one does anything other than stuff I know I shouldn't do with my limitations. Closest PT apt with someone I know could help is 5 weeks + out. For almost a month, I had been falling into a pattern of sitting on a heating pad for hours to get my piriformus, hamstring and glutes under control. One day I tried to go force myself to run on the treadmill in the garage one day to "get back on the wagon" and found it covered in sand, broken kids toys, and boxes. A few days later, I came home from work, motivated to get back into my PT and make the burning pain stop and found my work out spot was covered with random boxes and decorations. Enter the mind injury. I got worse. I was eating poorly. Ramen twice a day some times. Frequently skipping meals. . Occasionally consuming more rum or beer than I should to dull things. Lots of coffee. Not enough water. I was gaining weight. And I was getting pissed off that I was gaining weight. I was getting pissed off that I couldn't find the time or space to do the PT I had known would help. I was wasting hours, aimlessly watching videos on YouTube on topics I was passionate about. Some where in this, I caught on to the "I was getting..." meme. We were old friends already. I was sad to see this one return. And also the realization that "I was searching..." meme was active too. I was searching for a way out. Searching for inspiration; for purpose. I've been at this game of life in interesting situations long enough to know there are no easy answers or ways out. Any one who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves, Richard Feynman style. One of these particular nights when I knew I couldn't sleep due to my leg being locked up, and maybe a few beers, I got routed into a sequence of MMA fights. In that, sequence, some how, I stumbled upon a video from this site's Heroine, @Sylvie von Duuglas-Ittu. For some reason now (probably because I've watched over 300 of her and Kevin's videos since) I can't find the original in my history. It was her discusing the low kick after a training session with a legend from the golden era. 8. It got in my head, in a good way. It may have taken a few weeks for it to get hold, but to me *now*. I'm 12 days in to "now" with 200 knees on a bag every day. I'm not wasting away on a heating pad, chowing down on random videos and ramen anymore. I've finally discovered what "teep" means and I'm working towards 200 of every strike a day. Then 500. (My Jab was already pretty good, but my cross was weak.) What inspired me to "step off my circle" was the nature of the fighting style. The origin is a pure form of "root vs root". Posture vs posture. After 200 knees in the morning; I don't hurt anymore for the rest of the day. Next posts; ( assuming I don't get banned <grin> ) will be about what I'm actively doing to restore my breathing and posture while studying the Library entries (and YouTube bits) for insight about root mechanics and maintenance. The origins of my injury would have been prevented if I had experienced and internalized the origins of the craft this site aims to save.

I've had one KO and one TKO and felt concussed after sparring a couple times. KO came from a head kick, came to seconds later ready to fight....clueless I'd just been knocked out. Felt fine. The TKO came with a huge overhand right that took me down. I was up and ready before the count but looking back, my mind was already gone. Knocked down twice more that round before it was stopped. I don't remember the fight after initial blow but everything immediately after. Felt pretty shitty the next day. Only concussion type experiences were boxing sparring --- once felt pretty sick after, fine the next day. Other just a bit rocked, fine the next day. I'm just getting back to Thailand and been questioning competing a bit because of it. Can anyone shed some light on this topic? I've been trying to develop a much more defensive style where I used to be way more - probably too willing to trade.

I saw there is another idea. The swedish 45 kg master, Camilla Danielsson (camilladanielsan on insta) do often uses something looking as such a neopren warmers when sparring. So I asked her, exactly why she uses these warmers, and Camilla very kindly answered: its not neopren warmers, its compression sleeves! She uses them not for protection, but to help out her blood circulation in the muscles, when they are extremely tired out, as its often with top athletes with theirs massive training... (I would guess she tends to get cramps in the calves.) I presume its an useful tip with these compression sleeves! And unlike Camilla, Im pretty sure they too give some protection for the shins, even if its not why Camilla uses them.

It has been a long and strange month. Travel took me away from the bag for a bit. Distractions did what they do. I've been thinking on an update here for a few days. The mental clarity and presence of mind to reflect finally found me today. First; a some bullet points: I simply don't hurt in the mornings any more. Aches in places? Sure. Have I missed a few days of the bag? Yes; but. Yes; but I have added some substantial shadowboxing to my day. The upper-middle back issue that I didn't even know about (5th rib, as mentioned in previous post) is worked more by punches vs big leg movements. I've completed my fastest 5k since 2011 (31 minutes.) I'm now running 5 miles a day. Also; two funnies: Pride: Getting your 6-year old to throw a legitimate knee at your arm is an awesome feeling. (I need to acquire some pads!) Shadowboxing while running/walking on a treadmill is actually kind of fun! However... adding an occasional knee into it didn't go so well. Our beat up old treadmill has these silly fan things below the hand bar. Striking one with your knee is sort of like hitting a cheese grater. I probably need another few days to heal a nasty gash (Sterri strip's were required. Glue didn't hold it very well.) Right leg-only knees aren't quite as fun as alternating. It's way harder to get to 200 when you can't switch off. Now the meat of the post. I've watched carefully Sylvie's discussion of "Ruup", across a few videos. The interesting notes from her actually start around fight 237. Her ability to perform "ruup management" is inspirational. I am a big fan of Miamoto Musashi's works; and the biggest take-away from his teachings as a whole, comes from his concept of taking the origin of a knowledge and applying it to a different context. The maintenance of Ruup, is as much a mental discipline as a physical one. I would argue easily that it is not just "mental or physical", it is "mental and physical". One can not maintain physical posture against all external forces without also maintaining mental posture. One can not maintain mental footing against adverse thoughts without having a solid breathing body beneath. But what of emotions? How does the concept, and how it fits into the narrative of a Thai fight, translate to every day life? What I have found in my month of ... not quite keeping to my goals... is exactly what I expected. My mental posture is, if anything, more deficient than my physical. Some might look to the question of which deficiency caused which. Did mental damage generate the physical? Did a physical injury open a rift in the mental posture? Perhaps most importantly; does it matter which came first? For me, this month will be about my mental posture. I will allow the work I have done physically to continue along its course. Knees and teeps in the morning, running at night. I will pull one more "origin" from Muay Thai to aid me: the corner ritual. As an external observer; if I had to guess where the Ruup Maintenance magic happens, it is in that corner. While I believe I do "okay" in the ring of life, I am beginning to be aware enough to tell myself that I absolutely suck while sitting in the corner between rounds. Until next time. -=fshalor

The average student holding Thai pads, doesn't really know how to hold them safely. I'd suggest focusing more on technique and using the bag for 'charging the battery' as it were. If your coach is holding the pads, then blast away.

Thank you all for the kind reception. It is interesting that the more I watch and learn and study of the origins; the more I am convinced that the core of Muay Thai is about maintaining awareness of "posture". I see this from the subtle corrections of Dieselnoi in training to the judging of fights where frequently blows to "posture" are considered to be just as damaging as an elbow to the forehead or a teep to the throat. As someone who needs to restore my posture: I'm convinced I'll be sticking around for a while. I guess this is day 13 of 200 knees, and I've added in 200 teeps as I had hoped. While I feel stronger; I also have had some nasty mornings. The first fifteen minutes of the day are hard. And if I sit down in anything soft for more than a half an hour; I have to start over. I would like to share to those following where my current focus is, and at least one resource I'm using to get my mind and body connected through motion. My injury (and re-injury) came about because of a few factors: I worked hard and pushed hard in everything I did (my posture was out of control) I had really weak glutes, lower back and flexors. (my posture was out of control) Lack of formal training of any sort, plus life style contributed a bit to (2). The first one; well... I was always the smallest, weakest, shortest and slowest growing up. My compensation was to push to the edge of my abilities. I often didn't break. Time, however, offers no quarter to "often". Oh. Gee. I guess my posture was... out of control. In the body, there are two central outer "lines of stuff" which hold everything together at a superficial level. Some texts use the term "myofascial lines". You can find tracks from these in several different disciplines. Just follow some acupuncture or acupressure charts and they are obvious. The "front" and "back" lines work together as we breath and move. They hold our guts in place, stabilize our breathing and ensure that when we do stupid stuff like try folding ourselves in half; that we don't actually fold in half. These are the same lines responsible for holding us in the fetal position while in the womb and then extending us the other way so we can start crawling with our head up. Cool huh. My draw to "Knees on the Bag" comes from the study of these two lines. I was struggling to answer this question: "Why wont my left hamstring shut off?" And "Why does my right foot hurt?" The simple action of kneeing a bag properly, with the mental queue of drawing your hands in an arc from your eyebrows down to your hips and tucking your heal to your butt happens to involve every actor along both of the text-book "front" and "back" lines. My pain goes away while I engage all of the actors. Interesting? But it can come back when I'm "resting" or static for too long. Why is this? The first obvious theory is that there is some binding occurring along the lines. I sort of know that, as I have an MRI showing me one such "binding". (It's really not that bad! Even if I had some surgery to scrape some stuff off, I'd then have to still fix the problem which is present causing the situation. And deal with the scar tissue and the recovery and .... ) To find the binding; I admit to enlisting some help. Pictures taken of me standing and walking revealed an obvious point. While walking, I was never fully shifting my weight into my left hip and my right arm almost didn't move. While standing and breathing, my rib cage was tipped with the front bottom "forward" and my pelvis was canted top-forward. To pull from text books; my bell (rib cage) was rung and my bowl (pelvis) was spilling. The "going into the left hip" thing has an easy solve. It's a pretty common pattern for us humans to fall into since we have more lung on our right side than the left. The solve for this may be as simple as just "switching stances". Although if something else other than our natural propensity to be right-dominant due to our anatomy is at play; more work is required. To identify that work; we must look at what can get the rib cage out of a "rung forward" position. The hips will probably follow. The suggestion from the person taking the pictures was a simple one "just breathe into your back". Sure. Easy. So then he showed me how to do that and almost on the first breath... "OMGWTFISTHAT!" was my shocked cry as some muscles in my mid back started into spasms. Once everything calmed down and I'd gone through some careful breathing sequences in the right posture; my rib cage and hips were back parallel like they're supposed to be. I felt nothing; no pain, no tension, no burning left hamstring feeling like it was going to snap my knee off. I also knew it wouldn't stay. I had what I needed for the day. Some data to work with. Some bits to study. What "breathing into my back" did for me was wake up by force some muscles and fascia which probably hadn't moved in a very very long time. Now to why I think this area is interesting for this forum. The area in mid back where I was bound up is directly related to the area of engagement in your back as you wind up for a cross. The back and front work together. Focus thoughts on the 5th rib next time you throw a strike of any sort at a bag. Below is a brief word map of the two lines from our waist up. Lets see if I can get my head around what's going on. (Bone attachments in Bold) Back: << stuff below >> Sit Bones --> Sacrum --> Lumbar muscles into erector spinae --> Occiput --> Over TopOfHead --> Frontal Bone (just behind your eyebrows) Front: <<from below >> --> Pubic bone --> RA --> 5th rib --> Some little bits near collar bone --> Mastoid Process (Jaw) --> Scalp Notice two things. First; these do not connect. Second; throwing knees, teeps, low kicks, a right cross ALL leverage a small contraction of the RA's at the 5th rib. Some of the acceleration of the weight transfer and the shock of impact goes through this attachment. At the same time the RA draws down, the erector spinea's (those ropey muscles on either side of your spine) also extend in coordination, but also in such a way as to coordinate around the fact that the rib cage is expanding and contracting in the center. I find facinating the mechanical (bone) attachments of these lines. In the back, we have a very strong double attachment to the sitbones + sacrum (which must move mostly together other than a little twisting), and then no anchor from the sacrum all the way to the skull. In the front, we have anchors at "root", "heart" , "voice", "mouth". Know why people clench their teeth when winding themselves up to deliver a strike? Oh! Cool! I'll be working on this area for the week. I of course welcome thoughts. To add a suggested reference for this: "Anatomy Trains" Thomas W. Myers. This is a wonderful book. There are several out there which cover this sort of thing, and I find Myers the most easy to understand and approach. I've used this book to help with some massage sessions for family injuries over the years; but never tried to apply much of it to myself. And some good pictures here since I probably shouldn't scan in anything from Myers. https://thetaichieffect.com/the-anatomy-of-connection/fascial-lines-in-our-body/ Adding in functional and spiral lines will be a topic for near future. I have a lot more to digest about how these superficial lines work first.

This is an interesting rant by a western coach over the custom of female fighters in Thailand having to enter the ring under the bottom rope. I leave his name out because there is no reason to be personal about this, I'm more interested in the weave of thoughts here. These are screenshots because after commenting on the post I was banned from continuing to comment - no big deal, it's his space and Muay Thai internet debate pretty much sucks. This is a huge, balls-out rant about the needed equality for women in sport and in particular for fighting, and it really strikes a powerful nerve in just the pure intensity of the celebration of Miriam Nakamoto -- hey, she was GOOD, one of the best ever. But most views on gender (and race and ethnicity) are not purely of one thing. I took pretty strong exception the characterization of Thai female fighters as generally being "treated as sex slaves and servants" (outlined red above) - does this guy even know much about actual Thai female fighters? After I made my first comment about this I believe he edited the word "treated" to "viewed" and then after making the post private to a circle he edited "sex slaves" to "after thoughts". Despite the changes this is a common trope of the passionate male, western pro-female fight "expert" that I've seen, the idea that Thai female fighters are somehow on the edge of becoming (or in this case, treated like) sex workers. Steven Wright also forwarded this idea as well. It's all part of the fantasy image of the "poor" Thai girl, forced into horrible conditions, and that these conditions make female Thai fighters inferior to the liberated, socially embraced western female fighters of the world. It's a complicated argument. He's very right that female Thai fighters are NOT treated in the way way as male Thai fighters in Thailand, and there are huge cultural (and economic) reasons why. And yes, the bottom rope custom is intimately woven into this. But the willingness to slip into these frankly bizarre and uninformed fantasies about Thai women, is just sexist and to me also (Orientalist) racist. Yes, there are lots of sex worker issues surrounding the plight of Thai women in various socioeconomic groups. But the willingness in the west, especially for men, to see the factuality of Thai women as fundamentally that of having a sex-worker status, especially when it seems that these men often have very little knowledge of the real lives of the Thai female fighters they are supposedly championing, is troubling (and no, I know of very few gyms in Thailand now where women cannot train in the ring with men). We saw this again and again, in the early days, when western men tried to troll Sylvie's fighting - the Thai female fighter is fundamentally just a poor girl, a child, a sex-worker in waiting. This is part of a big western (male) fantasy projected onto an exotic land they don't really know, a land much more complex (ethnically, by class, by belief) than they are willing to believe. Almost every top Thai female fighter I know of I would probably characterize as Middle class. Middle class by western standards. You want to see what these women look like? Here is a list of them Sylvie wrote about, the best under 48kg To his credit the author amended his words after making the rant private to a group of people. But I'm really interested in how these two thoughts: Women are Equal! AND These Asian Women are like Sex Slaves? can unconsciously compliment each other. The fact of the matter is that Thai female fighters are among the best in the world. In my opinion they are better, all things being considered, than their natural counterparts in the west, as a whole. Historically there have been some obstacles to actually showing this though: The best western female fighters (Nakamoto, Kitchen, Randamie, etc) historically have been giants to the best Thai female fighters and for that reason either large western fighters don't end up fighting the best Thai talent (if Thais at all), or when they do it can be with a significant weight advantage. Even to this day many of the top western fighters (Barlow, Meksen, van Soest), when weights are more equivalent, do not fight top Thais in Thailand - in fact these fighters hardly have fought each other. And importantly there are fundamental differences in how western and Thai scoring is done, something that leads to misunderstandings in East vs West matchups, and there are differing motivations at times. There is no "international stage" on which to judge Thai female fighter talent - no, the IFMAs have not been taken particularly seriously by most Thais. Yes, Thai female fighters do face a very different place in the gym than do male Thai fighters, something part of the problemized position of women in Thai culture, but it is incredibly disrespectful to describe that place as generally being like that of sex slaves, in any way, or that this status has lead to a general inferiority of Thai female fighters. The "sex slave" characterization trope for Thai women is a loaded one, instead of respecting Thais, one is just forwarding old stereotypes. Thai female fighters have devoted their lives to fighting. They deserve the respect of what they are, fighters who have long trained and fought in their National art. As to the bottom rope, this is such a complicated aspect of Muay Thai in Thailand it is very hard to untangle. Some Thai female fighters feel disrespected by the custom, some find it to be very meaningful and proper. Because the Muay Thai of Thailand is fundamentally a performance of traditional, hyper-masculinity, pulling on the threads of gender may unravel some of that respected cloth. There is to me no clear, principled answer here (Sylvie feels differently I suspect), but rather important principles that clash. But I do present his rant here because it contains some very powerful imagery in favor of female liberty. But in this case, the fact that the author seems pretty dis-conntected from Thailand itself (it's realities, its people, their beliefs) his particular brand of "Fuck your traditions!" feels a little not right.

Thanks for sharing your story

That was very inspiring... Thank you sir for sharing your story... ❤

What a journey! Its so good to hear that you never gave up, and always kept trying...doing...in the face of pain and debilitation (even if it wasn't easy), and that you found Sylvies videos. Her videos did a lot for my mental state as well when I was injured last year. I kept trying to push beyond my limits and kept re-injuring the same spot. I knew I had to stop...and recover, and being able to dive deep into the mental training with the way Sylvie and Kevin talk about Muay Thai in the podcast was a life saver. Being able to watch the passion (and invaluable knowledge) she brings out in the long-form training with legends, oh man! I almost think that everyone needs to study the history, general knowledge and mental capacity of Muay Thai just as much as the physical. I cant wait to read your next post

I was...I am...very moved by this post. This is everything I'd hope to hear and read from others, such a human story. All about our frailty, and our ache to be better, to find better, in something, in ourselves. And it is fucking incredible that for whatever reason Sylvie and her work sparked something in you, that all your gears got triggered to turn in whatever beautiful way you are turning them. Thank you for taking the time to write so realistically. It means a lot.

I do applaud how strongly the coach takes issue against the bottom rope. So many people cradle the "tradition" of it without also acknowledging that it is not simply two ways of doing something, but is putting women in their place in a manner that is not valuing that position. I've written about it many times before and I'm conflicted on how I do embrace a lot of those elements that make this practice meaningful, but I also cannot embrace that the meaning is inseparable from women being "lesser than". So yes, flying over the top rope is fucking badass. However, flying in the face of that practice while simultaneously claiming that Thai women aren't agents within the world of Muay, that they're being forced or coerced or exploited in the sport as a layover before - or even just akin to - being forced, coerced and exploited in the Sex Industry... well, fuck you very much. (I've heard this assumption or correlation between female Thai fighters and Thai prostitutes before. This coach WAS saying that Thai women are treated as sex slaves, whatever the hell he means by that, but also amended that part so I reckon he saw how ridiculous that claim was.) His message appears to be "your women aren't very good and aren't worthy opponents, but my western fighter is here to liberate them from the rope issue." At her size, Miriam Nakamoto is not likely to be fighting against many Thai women, and in the World Championships that her coach describes, she indeed didn't face any. So whatever sub-par fighters he alludes to in the "Thai women are forced to train after hours" claim, they're not in direct competition with his fighter. Who is he talking about? I've fought two of the women who are regularly on the Thai National Team and follow most of those who have been on the team over the years, and these women individually have hundreds of fights. They're career fighters who dedicate time and love into the art. They're not at the precipice of prostitution, nor are any of them "afterthoughts." There are a myriad of issues that female fighters, especially Thai women, face in the uphill climb against institutionalized and cultural sexism, but actually identifying those issues specifically is the way to address and correct them - not a general and hyperbolized wash that, quite frankly, dismisses them. Thai women do not get the same money or coverage that men do (same as female fighters in the west); they do not have the same training opportunities, largely speaking (same as in the west); they may have shorter careers or not be able to devote themselves fully to training without also being in school or having a job in order to support themselves (same as in the west); and there is sexual harassment and dis-equal treatment in gyms, promotions, and access to exposure (same as in the west). I don't know that this is a complete thought on my part, really. I agree with Kevin, mostly. Being pro-women as a male coach is awesome and I don't want to wag my finger at it, but I also can't handle the "I love women" message being tethered to the kind of sexist bullshit that this particular argument is attached to.